Slaughterhouse-Five Response
Guide
Satire
– combines a critical attitude with wit and humor to improve society.
Forget the Tralfamadorians. Don’t bother your head considerably about
their conceptions of time. That stuff is
all low-grade science fiction. The heart
of the novel, and what makes Vonnegut an Important Author (I do believe that
people will be studying him in 100 years), is his satire.
On the blogpage, I want to see five different
entries from each of you. They should be
short. Identify a passage. Quote it entirely, or if it’s a little
longer, identify it by page, and by the opening and closing of the
passage. [“I have told my sons. . . machinery like that” p. 19].
Then your response, 25 words or fewer.
Pick quotations that reflect Vonnegut’s view of the human condition.
Of the five entries, three should be of the Quotation-Comment
type. Two should be responses
to other people’s entries. Each will
count for up to five points.
The portal closes: 6:00 p.m., EDT, Sunday, March 30,
2014.
" 'The most important thing I learned on Tralfamadore was that when a person dies he only appears to die. He is still very much alive in the past, so it is very silly for people to cry at his funeral. ...' ".
ReplyDeleteThis passage that I found on page 26, really spoke to me, more so than anything else we have read so far in this class. I have always thought of someones death being the end, but this passage shows that even though you may not be up and alive today, you were at some point in time, you can never stop existing. We are all part of history, memories, what will one day be the past. I have lost several very close relatives in my lifetime, and this brings me so much peace to know that I can't be the only one who remembers, because every single person they knew, they ARE (not were) part of their past too. They DO live on, even if it's not in the present, it is in the past.
When I read that quote, for some reason I couldn't stop thinking about the character Meursault from "The Stranger". I think he would have agreed that it was silly to cry at a funeral, even though his reasoning probably had more to do with his lack of human emotions.
DeleteWow. Emily the perspective you have on this quote is really uplifting and I totally agree. When a person dies they do not leave our memories or our hearts they have just moved to a place further away. However, when it says "it is very silly for people to cry at his funeral" that line hits me as a tad psychopathic where no empathy is shown which almost counteracts the positive side of the quotation.
DeleteHere's the link to the letter from Kurt Vonnegut to students, urging them to "do art". (The rest of the website is kind of cool, too.)
ReplyDelete"Another thing they taught was that nobody was ridiculous or bad or disgusting. Shortly before my father died, he said to me, 'You know--you never wrote a story with a villain in it.' I told him that was one of the things I learned in college after the war."
ReplyDeleteI've found so many quotations to use I didn't quite know where to start. This excerpt is from page 8, and I found it to be thought-provoking. To me, it seems like Vonnegut is trying to say that while there is good and evil in the world, but there's no fine line between them because everyone has different perspectives.
This relates back to so many works that we have studied through school, I feel like this is a common theme, "where is the line between good and evil" ? I feel like all of us struggle to kind of comprehend that because as you said Emily, everyone has different opinions as well as the "standard issue ideas of what should be."
Delete"Weary drew back his right boot, aimed a kick at the spine, at the tube which had so many of Billy's important wire's in it. Weary was going to break the tube."
ReplyDeleteI found this passage on page 51, and I feel like it must be the creative writer in me who liked it so much. I took creative writing first semester of my junior year, and for whatever reason this passage brought me back to that class. I think it was mostly his word choice. I obviously understand the references he is making to the spinal cord and nerves and such, but I found it perplexing as to why he described Billy as a machine at that exact point in time when he is so vulnerable.
to me this quote really shows Billy's disengagement from his own life. He sees Weary and knows what he is going to do, yet it has no emotional effect on him, it just is. It makes me wonder, how a person can just be, isn't there something that can get through to Billy?
Delete"Makes a three-sided hole is a guy. You stick an ordinary knife in a guy - makes a slit. Right? A slit closes right up. Right?"
ReplyDeleteI saw this quote on page 37 and thought it make a good statement about war. In war, people create weapons that are more and more terrible, to murder more. I though the quote showed this well, because Weary is very proud of his blade. It demonstrates the mentality of these soldiers.
When I read this line, I think I just passed by and didn't appreciate its true value, as you have. Re-reading that passage again I find what you say to be so true. War is just so destructive, it's about death, it's about winning at all costs, and this line just shows it in such a great (not really great) way.
DeleteI didn't pay attention to this quote earlier either but weapons become more and more deadly as time progresses yet we use them for safety.
DeleteMichael Johnson says:
ReplyDeletePage 51: “ The Soldiers’ (germans) blue eyes were filled with a bleary civilian curiosity as to why one American would try to murder another one so far from home.”
This quote reflects Kurt Vonnegut’s attitude because it shows how misunderstood the nature and stupidity of war is. This situation has no logical explanation, just like war.
I feel "stupidity" is not the right word, but "destructive effect" would be better. It's interesting how war can literaly change a person to be almost unrecognizable.
DeleteAndy Lenoce
I hope this isn't cheating but I found two quotes close together that explain Vonnegut's confusing writing style:
ReplyDelete"And I asked myself about the present: how wide it was, how deep it was,how much was mine to keep."
and "It is so short and jumbled and jangled, Sam, because there is nothing intelligent to say about a massacre."
especially when put together they reflect and explain his disorganized writing.
It's not really a quote, but I was noticing throughout the beginning how he says "So it goes" frequently.
ReplyDeleteVonnegut usually says this after he recalls a rather tragic event, such as the man being smashed by the car. I think this is a display of Vonnegut's demeanor, how the war has made him hard and indifferent towards tragedy. He has seen so much throughout his life and the war that suffering is insignificant to him.
I noticed this as well. I think it is Vonnegut's way of showing how he perceives the world now. He is almost shell-shocked, where he doesn't react much to all these events, he just knows that's what happens, life goes on. These occurrences happen all the time, and so he realizes that's just the way it is.
DeleteI've also noticed this too and he also says "..and so on." at the end of a tragic story, but I don't necessarily think that suffering is an insignificant thing to him but rather, he has accepted it as the way life is sometimes and life goes on regardless.
DeleteI think this phrase generally expresses resignation. Somebody dies? So it goes. However, Vonnegut clearly is not resigning to the needless violence by writing this anti-war book.
DeleteThe first time he says "so it goes" is only a few pages in and it surprised me right away, because to me war is insignificant to me. Then again I've never fought in any war, so I guess instances of suffering and tragedy shock me much more than they would a veteran. The idea that life goes on after tragedy is hopeful, but to me the phrase also makes life seem less valuable, which is the exact opposite.
Delete"So it goes." Repeated 106 times in the novel, after someone (or something -- "the champagne was dead. So it goes." -- dies. Many people are put off by the apparent casualness of the attitude, but I think Vonnegut is always respectful of people's lives.
DeleteThe first time Vonnegut said "so it goes", it reminded me of my grandmother. That, and so it does" are two things that she would say all the time, and to me it was always just there. I'm so used to hearing it that I might have just skipped over it had he not repeated it so many time and caught my attention.
Delete“Like so many Americans, she was trying to construct a life that made sense from things she found in gift shops.” (39)
ReplyDeleteVonnegut believes Americans live almost artificial lives, focused around souvenirs from “gift shops”. Americans feel more comfortable with their lives knowing they own these objects.
And so we define ourselves by the kitsch we collect. [For me, souvenir coffee cups to remember different chapters of my life.]
Delete"I got into some perfectly beautiful trouble, got out of it again." (Page 18)
ReplyDeleteThis quote is so frank; I get a kick out of the simplicity. Vonnegut has successfully epitomized the cycle of everyone's life. Although at times I don't think I'd be inclined to describe my trouble as "perfectly beautiful" as much as "deranged" or "scandalous".
"'There's more to life than what you read in books,' said Weary. 'You'll find that out.'" (pg. 38).
ReplyDeleteThis quotation shows that Vonnegut believes life is lived through experience. People learn more by going out in the world and participating than they do reading of other's stories.
"He straightened out, became a fine young man, and he fought in Vietnam" pg. 25. I chose this because it challenges the idea of honor in violence and is the opposite of Vonnegut teaching children contempt for "massacre machinery".
ReplyDeleteThis is my second reading of the book. I read it when I was younger, and didn't pick up much of the anti war sentiment, but reading i now I see how Billy's coming "unstuck in time" can be viewed as a manifestation of PTSD
ReplyDelete"There was a tap on Billy's car window. A black man was out there. He wanted to talk about something. The light had changed. Billy did the simplest thing. He drove on."
ReplyDeleteThis reflects Vonnegut's view on how people will avoid situations that they think may not be in their best interest even if the situation is harmless.
This reminds me of that news story where the motorcyclists beat up the driver of an SUV. I agree with your thought, that people generally try to just avoid possible situations, such as not interfering with a mugging in a city. It's not the "right" thing to do, but people still do it.
DeleteAs well as a gentle skewering of our attitudes toward race and poverty, twin problem children of our society.
Delete"I have also told them not to work for companies which make massacre machinery, and to express contempt for people who think we need machinery like that." pg. 19
ReplyDeleteThe only way for countries to remain safe and maintain peace and order is to develop such machinery to prepare for any horrific events. Weapons supply armies with the necessary equipment to continue their duties, and if no one worked to manufacture the items, troops would not be able to succeed.
Kirsten Shea
You may be right, Kirsten, but I hope that's not the only way. [See "Billy watches a movie backwards."]
Delete"There were umpires everywhere, men who said who was winning or losing the theoretical battle, who was alive and who was dead." page 31
ReplyDeleteIt is such a cynical view on how the war and let alone how life is judged. It is realistic though and it is how Vonnegut saw the war. Cut and dry, other people are deciding who lives and who dies. It's stated as almost a fact rather then an observation. It is what it is.
I don't think it was very cynical. There can be a certain difference between realistic and cynical, and this was just realistic. Something cynical would be that those umpires were placing their bets, etc. That's cynical, and perhaps also true. But I see where you're coming from.
Delete"The picture was widely published two days later as heartening evidence of ohw miserably equipped the American Army often was, despite its reputation for being rich."
ReplyDeleteI found this on page 58, I liked this quite a bit. In todays world, with photoshop and such, it is the same concept. This picture of course, was taken after Billy had been captured. The Germans had taken his footwear from him. Therefore the picture wasn't actually an accurate representation. The photo was misleading, which I find happens too often. This adds to Vonnegut's point and his overall opinion of the war.
I found his 'temporal displacement' means he's just acting out his life. The staged photo feels about as meaningful as being shot in the head.
Delete"The nicest veterans in Schenectady, I thought, the kindest and funniest ones, the ones who hated the war the most, were the ones who'd really fought." (p.11)
ReplyDeleteThis is very ironic but very true. For someone to understand war must have experienced it to the fullest and the ones that have experienced violence, anger, and sorrow are the ones who truly understand happiness and experience it to the highest degree.
The opposite applies, too: often those most eager to go to war are those who have never been (and will not actually have to fight in the war they are so fervently espousing).
DeleteNicole Howard wanted to say:
ReplyDeleteHere is my response:
"He is in a constant state of stage fright, he says, because he never knows what part of life he is going to have to act in next." p.23
When I read this I immediately thought College! Although Vonnegut is talking about Billy and his life, I couldn’t help but think, many people our age are in a constant state of freight. We are all floating, wondering where we will go next, what we want to do with the rest of our lives and how the heck are we going to pay for it all! As Vonnegut says, "[we] never know" what curve ball is coming next and where it is coming from. I believe this speaks for so many people and humans in general. Not many of us can float around waiting for the next wave, most of us need to know what’s coming and are in a constant sate of fear of it.
I really enjoy this interpretation, I related this piece to life in general and our futures (fated, God chosen, or otherwise) but not college specifically. It's a perfect analogy
DeleteIf feel the same way about this quote! You never know what's going to happen next in life, so I think it's better to be on your toes. College is definitely a major next step in most of our lives at this time, and this is the first thing I thought about when reading these lines.
Delete“Even then I was supposedly writing a book about Dresden ----- much publicity.”
ReplyDelete(Pg. 10)
I feel the horrors that he experienced by the Allied bombings of Dresden and the massacre of the city never left his mind. It is ironical that even today, there are traumatized soldiers coming back from war, incapable of functioning properly. Like Kurt Vonnegut, I am of the strong feeling that war not only imposes destructive physical effects, but, also, mentally finishes an individual also.
I noticed his lack of omission of the war as well. The long term effects of war on soldiers and the reasons behind them are compelling to look at.
DeleteNo irony at all. As we'll see in the upcoming "War Poets" section, the psychological after-effects of war are a part of all wars.
Delete"'There's more to life than what you read in books,' said Weary.
ReplyDeleteI believe that this quote illustrates that Vonnegut believes in actually doing, not just in listening to how people believe he should do things.
"His father was going to throw Billy into the deep end, and Billy was going to damn well swim" (pg. 43).
ReplyDeleteI liked this quote because it gives us an insight into how Billy was raised. He wasn't coddled but instead thrown into experiences, learning quickly. This could later benefit his character with his participation in the war.
The entirety of the book seems to be him, floundering in things that are over his head. That's life, all of us trying to swim.
DeleteThe only opposition I have to Kelsey's statement is that I'm not sure we could consider Billy's experiences "swimming". "Floundering" however, is a much better terminology.
Delete"That's one thing Earthlings might learn to do, if they tried hard enough: ignore the awful times, and concentrate on the good ones" pg 117.
ReplyDeleteI find this quote ironic in the context of an anti-war book, especially one about WWII. We're always told to remember the Holocaust to prevent something similar happening again. That being said, the Trafalmadorians can also be looked at as civilians interacting with Billy after the war. People tell him just to forget what he saw and be happy he lived, but he can't do that, and they can't seem to understand why, just as the Trafalmadorians can't understand how humans see time.
"The altar and organ were made by a vacuum cleaner company" pg.31
ReplyDeleteI chose this because it is part of Vonnegut's continuing contempt/disillusionment with religion; an interesting foil for an anti-war book.
Also, I'm curious as to whether or not the 25 words or less thing is still being followed because everyone seems to be writing more and now I look lazy
DeleteWell, I guess it just means "be brief". But I was reminded today -- in a different context -- that twenty-five words really isn't very much. (24) (Wow!)
DeleteI found this quote kind of comical. However when thinking about it, this is typical of American culture. We developed from a society where everyone was a specialist in their craft, now Wal-Mart sells everything.
Delete"Now, divine air! now is his soul ravished!
DeleteIs it not strange that sheeps' guts should hale souls
Out of men's bodies?"
William Shakespeare/ Much Ado About Nothing
"I have told my sons that they are not under any circumstances to take part in massacres, and that the news of massacres of enemies is not to fill them with satisfaction or glee. I have also told them not to work for companies which makes massacre machinery, and to express contempt for people who think we need machinery like that." pg. 19
ReplyDeleteHere I found Vonnegut expressing how following experiences like his he (or anyone else) would want to disassociate themselves with the tools used for such actions.
Andy Lenoce
I agree. This one is pretty straightforward support of his antiwar sentiment but this time he goes a step further and talks about weapons.
Delete"She swallowed hard, shed some tears. Then she gathered energy from all over her ruined body, even from her toes and fingertips. At last she had accumulated enough to whisper this complete sentence:
ReplyDelete'How did I get so old?'"
Billy Pilgrim, the protagonist, displays a sort of dispassionate angst for his continued existence. That makes the people who do care even more poignant.
"The eight ridiculous Dresdeners ascertained that these hundred ridiculous creatures really were American fighting men fresh from the front. They smiled, and then they laughed. Their terror evaporated. There was nothing to be afraid of. Here were more crippled human beings, more fools like themselves."
ReplyDeleteThere are no winners in war, nor is there the 'good' side. There are just frightened humans doing the best they can in the circumstances.
"The most important thing I learned on Tralfamadore was that when a person dies he only appears to die. He is still very much alive in the past, so it is very silly for people to cry at his funeral. All moments, past, present, and future, always have existed, always will exist."
ReplyDeleteThis is very intriguing because although a person dies, he or she is still alive in thoughts and memory. Vonnegut is saying that it is not necessary for a person to mourn for the deceased because that person has lived a full life and therefore still remains in time.
Kirsten Shea
I found this part interesting too, but mainly because of how it really echoes the latest developments in quantum physics like string theory. If people like Steven Hawking are to be believed we have all lived our lives an infinite amount of times with an infinite amount of different decisions each time and we will then live an infinite amount of times in the future.
DeleteI find this to be such an amazing quote. One person does not truly die until the last person who knew their stories dies, which could be forever. It is easy, when someone dies, to mourn their death. However, it is hardest to really celebrate the life of the individual and look back on the impact they have made on history, which is exactly what Vonnegut is telling us to do.
DeleteI think a person doesn't only live on through memories but also through their actions and the impact they've had on others and one person's decision or action will affect an infinite amount of people in the future.
DeleteSomehow, I don't find that reassuring, Jack.
DeleteI was about to post this myself! As most people know, my grandmother passed away quite suddenly recently. It was the most significant death that I was old enough to truly feel (I lost my grandfather when I was three). Knowing that she won't be there for holidays or to pick up the phone was the hardest thing I have ever had to deal with. But the advice that most everyone gave me was to focus on her life and all the wonderful memories, just like this quote suggests.
ReplyDelete"When I got back to the office, the woman writer asked me, just for her own information, what the squashed guy had looked like when he was squashed.
ReplyDeleteI told her.
'Did it bother you?' she said. She was eating a Three Musketeers candy bar."
I find it amusing how Kurt decided to throw in the point that she was eating a three musketeers candy bar. It makes me wonder why he did. I think it was to highlight the fact that America (and just humans in general) have such an acceptable and admittedly sick curiosity and it won't stop them in what they're doing.
“The dog, who had sounded so ferocious in the winter distances, was a female German shepherd. She was shivering. Her tail was between her legs. She had been borrowed that morning from a farmer. She had never been to war before. She had no idea what game was being played. Her name was Princess.” (52)
ReplyDeleteThe impersonal way Billy and Princess get put into uncomfortable situations highlights the fact that war is about the opposite of free will.
I do agree with the example of the dog being in the war as a sign that opposes free will. I also agree that many men go to war against their will. However, I do believe many young men venture to war in search of adventure under their own will, only to find the truth...
DeleteBe honest. You all feel worse for the poor dog than you do for the human beings at war!
Delete"When Weary was ditched, he would find somebody who was even more unpopular than himself, and he would horse around with that person for a while, pretending to be friendly." (pg 35)
ReplyDeleteThis section about Weary really stuck me. I initially wanted to hate him for being so cruel to everyone around him but then I realized what we have been taught all our lives, sometimes the biggest bullies are the ones being bullied. I disagree with Weary's approach to his problem but his reaction to neglect is so purely human that I should not ne so quick to judge.
I also agree about how the biggest bullies are almost always the ones who are being bullied themselves, whether it be at home, in school or their own community. Weary probably did this so that he was able to feel what friendship was for awhile and then would remember how people would bully him, so he would do the same to his "new-found friend."
DeleteKirsten Shea
"Billy was involuntarily making convulsive sounds that were a lot like laughter." (pg 51)
ReplyDeleteThis line made me think about how if i am in an uncomfortable situation I smile. Sometimes this type of reaction makes the other person angry, such as Weary was at Billy. Other times however it just makes you feel really bad that you cant just give bad news to someone without looking like a smiling fool.
“I wrote the Air Force back then, ------- from whom?”(Pg.11)
ReplyDeleteIn this quote, Vonnegut’s continuing mental torture is seen in figuring out the raid at Dresden, which was, according to him, totally unnecessary. His persistence and desire to know the answer about the raid compels me to think of the present situations regarding war and its role.
"Most Tralfamadorians had no way of knowing Billy's body and face were not beautiful. They supposed that he was a splendid specimen. This had a pleasant effect on Billy, who began to enjoy his body for the first time." I thought this quote illustrated how our society works today perfectly. We don't compare our flaws to others' flaws, we compare our flaws to others' best qualities. It's why our society creates such unrealistic expectations for each other. Everything is dependent on your personal prospective.
ReplyDeleteNicole H. says:
ReplyDeleteHere is my response:
“The second hand on my watch would twitch once, and a year would pass, and then it would twitch again.” P.20
I think this is a true testament to human nature and the way we see things. Time goes so slow, but yet you blink and your graduating high school. At least, that’s how it feels for me. This line really spoke to me about how as humans we constantly look to the future, what’s ahead, but we cease to look at what is right in front of our noses. I think we forget to realize life can go by so fast, like the twitch of a second hand.
I completely agree-most people look towards the future and think about what's going to happen rather than focus on what's currently happening in the present. Looking back, it doesn't feel like we've been in high school for four years already, and before we know it we will be graduating college. A lot of young children and teenagers want to grow up and become more independent, but once they get that chance, they'll soon find out it's not all what they hoped it would be.
DeleteKirsten Shea
" 'The most important thing I learned on Tralfamadore was that when a person dies he only appears to die. He is still very much alive in the past, so it is very silly for people to cry at his funeral. ...' ".
ReplyDeleteI really like this passage because it is the first positive take on death that we've looked at. Rather than being upset because a person is gone, the Tralfamadorians choose to be happy because they lived and created memories, and I think it takes a strong, special kind of person to be able to do that.
"Every so often...It was an extremely quiet thing that Billy did, and not very moist (p 61)"
ReplyDeleteI think Billy's description of how he cries at random moments really speaks to the way he is living. Billy doesn't think anything more of this other than he must just need more sleep. He is going through the motions of his life, but he's not engaging in any of them; its like he's there, but at the same time his mind is in a million different places.
I agree that Billy seems to be detached from his life. I find it strange that he seems to have always been this way. In the beginning I thought it was just a cause of the trauma he went through during the war and that he used to be happy. As I continue reading I'm starting to get the feeling that he just doesn't have much of a will to live. He doesn't sound suicidal just like he has no purpose.
DeleteI thought this passage really illustrates the mental toll that wars take on veterans, even if they haven't been physically injured. PTSD is a disorder that has only been taken seriously in recent years, but Billy certainly seems to have it.
Delete"They were all theoretically dead now. The theoretical corpses laughed and ate a hearty noontime meal."
ReplyDeleteThis moment was when I started to realize that Billy is capable of thinking in ways that most normal people cant. He can see himself surrounded by people who in his mind are already dead, and it doesn't even phase him.
This is exactly why I think he may be a tad psychopathic! He doesn't cry at funerals and is always thinking theoretically or hypothetically. He constantly talks of life as though it is very cut and dry. I stated this in my very first post. He just seems too detached from human emotions to be mentally stable.
DeleteI thought that same thing. At first I thought it was just Kurt's writing style. It definitely makes it seem that there is something off about the character; the effects of war, most likely. Desensitizing and unenthusiastic.
DeleteI don't have my book handy, so I can't look up this particular passage. Could it be that although they should be dead, they aren't, so -- let's continue to live?
Delete"'Why you? Why us for that matter? Why anything? Because this moment simply is'"..."'Well, here we are, Mr. Pilgrim, trapped in the amber of this moment. There is no why.'" (pg. 76-77)
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because it expresses Vonegut's view of the world, and further conveys his view of living in the moment. Life is explained as a series of moments, and Slaughterhouse Five is a book about Billy's moments jumbled out of order.
about war: page 116
ReplyDelete"we ignore them. We spend eternity looking at pleasant moments-like today at the zoo. Isn't this a nice moment?"
I find this quote reflective of certain government structures throughout the world today. Countries such as Norway, Sweden, and Finland don't go so far as to ignore world conflicts, however they stay out of them and in return are provided a sense of peace and happiness.
I found it slightly ironic that at the end of this passage it is revealed that the universe is destroyed through an experimental accident, perhaps a commentary that even though the war Billy talks about and we're all supposed to be against is bad nothing will stop chaos winning the chaos vs. order thing?
DeleteAfter first reading this quote in the book, I figured Vonnegut was basically belittling humans and the way they ignore devastating wars. Instead of trying to resolve these huge, destructive conflicts, we decide to selfishly pretend like all is well by only filling our minds with the pleasant moments. However, I really like how you interpreted this quote in a more optimistic way by saying that countries aren’t necessarily ignoring wars, but rather they are simply staying out of them and, in turn, reaping positive outcomes.
DeleteAs dark and cynical as Vonnegut can be, he liked to quote one of his uncles, who liked to say "If this isn't fun, then I don't know what is!"
Delete"She swallowed hard, she'd some tears... 'How did I get so old?'" Pg. 44
ReplyDeleteThis is the third time in a span of ten or so pages I've counted where there is some kind of mention of Billy's dying parents. These sections are sad, but somehow I find they make Vonnegut's arguments more effective, it really grounds all the time travel ridiculousness and blatantly gory war stories. It also turns Billy into a sympathetic character even though we really know nothing about him.
"It's is the sweetest thing there is," said Lazzaro. "People fuck with me," he said, "and Jesus Christ are they ever fucking sorry. I laugh like hell. I don't care if it's a guy or a dame. If the President of the United States fucked around with me, I'd fix him good. You should have seen what I did to a dog one time."
ReplyDeleteI think Vonnegut uses Lazzaro to show another side of the dangers of war and what being held as a POW can do to some.
I'm pretty sure Taaj chose this quote because it has the most swears of any other quote but I do agree with him the scene was meant to show Lazzaro losing his mind. Although war does a lot more to the mind than cuss words can properly describe
DeleteI think Lazarro was put in to show that not every person who goes into war wants to do it to protect the freedoms of their country, or for any other honorable reason, sometimes soldiers sign up just to satisfy their bloodlust, which is an ugly, but true thought.
Delete"'There's more to life than what you read in books,' said Weary. 'You'll find that out.'"
ReplyDeleteReading books can provide a person to gain knowledge, however people can't always rely on books to contribute to insight and education. Experience and participation throughout life truly administer wisdom and knowledge because you are constantly learning how to improve your situation and better yourself. When you fail, you learn to not make the same mistake, but to continue on by learning from mistakes to achieve higher goals. Therefore, reading books can give a person great knowledge, but experience provides for a better education and learning experience.
Kirsten Shea
Meghna Dhar says:
DeleteI also agree that only reading books like a bookworm does not make one much knowledgeable. I think wisdom can be gained by an all-round development. When we read books, we gain knowledge theoretically. Experiencing life as it is with its positives and negatives and facing its various hurdles is wisdom. Books provide an additional course, while we live life everyday.
"There is no beginning, no middle, no end, no suspense, no moral, no causes, no effects. What we love in our books are the depths of many marvelous moments seen all at one time." pg. 88
ReplyDeletePeople want to be able to look back on all the positive things on their lives, know what they are and when they happen, and by reading things and looking at the world around us we can recognize when we need those good moments. This passage I find similar to Kirsten's quote, where our experiences are what we learn from the most. Books in this quote can help define why these moments and experiences happen.
Andy Lenoce
I also found that this quote describes this book as a whole. Slaughterhouse Five does not have a definite beginning, middle, end, or climax, but a jumble of the most prominent moments of his life.
Delete"But sleep would not come. Tears came instead." (pg 62)
ReplyDeleteThese lines made me connect with Billy more then any others in the book so far. I cant speak for everyone, but i know that there are those rare days where I just want to fall asleep and forget about everything, but instead I end up just crying. Sometimes I don't even know why at first. I just need to get out some of my frustration I guess.
I think this can also mean something more, like how we can just forget things and expect to be done with it. Certain things can linger and those issues should be addressed instead of building up a resistance to it. I feel like this sort of thing can really change a person's outlook on things significantly, usually for the worst though.
ReplyDeleteAndy Lenoce
"The body of an old man covered by a sheet was wheeled by....the man had been a famous marathon runner in his day."
ReplyDeleteNo matter what we do or who we are we all meet the same ending--death.
I do agree with this, but, we can all be remembered for how we lived our life. We live by our deeds, not by our years.
Delete"Do you know what I say to people when I hear they're writing anti-war books? . . I say, 'Why don't you write an anti-glacier book instead?"
ReplyDeleteI find the quote interesting. Vonnegut admits even though he is writing an anti-war book, war is seemingly part of human nature and practically unavoidable.
I agree. The guy is basically saying that war is unavoidable and that it just completely natural. Which has some truth. There will always be disagreements and war is a very human way to settle them.
DeleteThis quote really stuck with me as well when I read it. The earliest glacers were massive and moved very slowly over the earth, carving out canyons and depositing large boulders. I think this was a good analogy for war because like glaciers (as you both said) war is seemingly unavoidable. But war also leaves ruin in its wake and manipulates the setting in which it takes place, like a glacier would.
DeleteIt always strikes me because when this book was written, it was a given that glaciers, like war, would always endure -- and look at them now. Of the two, I'll take glaciers any day.
Delete"Tralfamadorians, of course, say that every creature and plant in the Universe is a machine. It amuses them that so many Earthlings are offended by the idea of being machines." (page 154)
ReplyDeleteTechnology has begun to take over our lives most of us cant even read a map but we have a GPS, what would we need a map for?so if we don't take this literally, the Tralfamadorians have a point. Everyone asks what the meaning of life is. They are saying that its to learn, work and die. in the end its not gonna matter if you were sad one day. its were you productive or not. We are robots doing or jobs everyday and taking care of each other in order to survive.
It is extremely hard for me to grasp the concept that we are just considered "robots." Just doing our jobs every day and coming home every day and eventually dying. However, life is so much more than that. Robots can't feel the millions of emotions that we do every day, they can't be in love, or be heartbroken. Taken from this quote, it does bother me that these "tralfamadorians" think we are machines. We may be machines that do the same thing every day, but that is simply on the surface of our lives. We are so much more as a human race.
DeleteThe idea that we "are machines" does make sense if you think of our daily lives. Like Nicole says however we are not simply machines. At the end of the day we feel all sorts of emotions. But it is also true what Genevieve says about how technology has, in a way, started to take over our lives. And here i believe lies the feeling of offence. This is especially true for teenagers who are constantly being told that they are addicted to their phones and that they should enjoy life more. Those comments give off a negative connotation so when it is suggested that we are similar to a mindless unthinking object we feel offense. But should we be offended or should we feel flattered that we have been able to combine efficiency, intelligence, and emotion into our way of life? Personally I was not offended by this but everyone will see it a different way.
Delete"American fighter planes came in under the smoke to see if anything was moving. The saw Billy and the rest moving down there. The planes sprayed them with machine-gun bullets, but the bullets missed. Then they saw some other people moving down by the riverside and they shot at them. They hit some of them. So it goes. The idea was to hasten the end of the war." Pg. 180
ReplyDeleteWhen Vonnegut wrote this, I felt like he really wanted to emphasize the mindless nature how war can be. The pilots, blindly, are shooting at civilians. It doesn't matter whether or not they're American or German, but anything to them (the pilots) is just a reason to speed up the end of the war and go home, even if it means being inhumane. I think this reflects the desire to accomplish anything at all costs, even if the consequences the ridding of your own people.
And down comes the duck. You've said the secret woid.
DeleteI always read this passage and think, "if only. . ."
Jen Kiely says:
ReplyDelete"Billy blacked out as he walked through gate after gate. He came to in what he thought might be a building on Tralfamadore. It was shrilly lit and lined with white tiles. It was on Earth, though. It was a delpusing station through which all new prisnors had to pass.
Billy did as he was told, took off his clothes. That was the first thing they told him to do on Tralfamadore, too."
This quote is where I first realized the ingenius analogy Vonnegut was creating between the way POW were being treated and humans would likely be treated by aliens if we were to be abducted. It was difficult at first to figure out the connection between the war and Billy's strange situation but the more I read the more quotes such as this one I find that piece the two story lines together.
"He said that Americans had no choice but to keep fighting in vietnam until they achieved victory or until the Communists realized that they could not force their way of life on weak countries."
ReplyDeleteI thought this showed the mindset of the times, where America was very anti-communism and were willing to sacrifice many lives for the sake of democracy.
Emily "Emmy" Kopsick says:
ReplyDeleteI just checked, and for some reason my final two comments never posted.
My first one was:
"He asked himself this: 'Where have all the years gone?'" pg 57.
I think people of any age or from any time period can relate to this quote. As we get older, the years go by faster and faster. All of sudden we take a look at ourselves and can't help but wonder how we got to that point in our lives.
My second one was:
"We had forgotten that wars were fought by babies." pg 106.
The way Vonnegut put this so bluntly makes me enjoy him as a writer that much more. War is not something I like to think about, but this quote stuck out and hit me in the face. People who are our age fight and die in wars. It's a little sickening to think about.
“The Tralfamadorians tried to give Billy clues that would help him imagine sex in the invisible dimension. They told him that there could be no Earthling babies without male homosexuals. There could be babies without female homosexuals. There couldn't be babies without women over sixty-five years old. There could be babies without men over sixty-five. There couldn't be babies without other babies who had lived an hour or less after birth. And so on.” (114)
ReplyDeleteBabies need more than just one man and one woman to survive; they depend on a network of genders which humans don’t understand because of their three-dimensional view of the world. Vonnegut is emphasizing that there is no superfluous or extra person in the world; therefore, war is always unnecessary.
I think he's just being silly.
Delete“What he meant, of course, was that there would always be wars, that they were as easy to stop as glaciers. I believe that, too."
ReplyDeleteThis quote is not only true, but painfully true. I feel like no matter how hard some leader in this world tries, there is no way everyone can be happy. we are all too engrossed in our own ideals to think and try to accept some other people's morals and customs. Obviously, that is easier said then done, as some countries are taught and even sing songs about hating Americans. However, what does it take to achieve the possibility of world peace?
Well, I know it's impossibly naive, but if everyone just said, when encouraged to go to war: "Umm, no thanks."
Delete"When a Tralfamadorian sees a corpse, all he thinks is that the dead person is in bad condition in that particular moment, but that the same person is just fine in plenty of other moments. Now, when I myself hear that somebody is dead, I simply shrug and say what the Tralfamadorians say about dead people, which is "so it goes"."
ReplyDeleteI chose this quote to represent Vonnegut's view on death. He seems to believe in the common ideology of a person living on through happy memories the way the Tralfamadorians believe a person is still happily alive at some moment
(This quote also seems to have been missed by many people who are still puzzled by the many "so it goes" so I thought I'd throw it out there)
"If I hadn't spent so much time studying earthlings," said the Tralfamadorian, "I wouldn't have any idea what was meant by 'free will.' I've visited thirty-one inhabited planets in the universe, and I have studied reports on one hundred more. Only on earth is there any talk of free will."
ReplyDeleteThis quote shows Vonnegut's belief that the ability to make choices is unique, contrary to what a Tralfamadorian may think, only viewing us as "bugs in amber".
I've always concluded the opposite from this: that although we value "free will" so highly, we really have much, much less of it than we really think. I mean, how many things can you think of that you would "never, ever do." Not to mention all the things that we've been rendered incapable of thinking of by our society and upbringing.
DeleteSorry my posts are so late! I just got back from a busy dance competition weekend
ReplyDelete"He concluded that someone had stolen [the wheel]. This angered him and he passed out.
He was in the back seat of his car, which was why he couldn't find the steering wheel."
Really I just found this part pretty humorous. This follows when Billy is unfaithful to his wife. That took me by surprise. Even though he faced so much hardship during the war, is that justification for cheating in a drunken stupor? He says it was the only time, but I am still surprised he would let go to his inhibitions that much.
"Barbara called the oil burner man...Which he did. It was heavenly." Pg 133-134
ReplyDeleteThis passage is just one example of how effortlessly Vonnegut ties together Billy's experiences on Tralfalmador and his time on Earth. It makes me think about how much time and effort must have been putinto this book to make it intersect so seamlessly.
"That's one thing Earthlings might learn to do, if they tried hard enough: Ignore the awful times, and concentrate on the good ones."
ReplyDeleteHumans will always dwell on the bad over the good. Pessimism will never overtake optimism.
"The moment is structured that way."
The future is certain and the end is always near.
"'There is no such planet as Tralfamadore'....'they're very far apart." pg. 30
ReplyDeleteI think that Vonnegut wrote this with the idea that Tralfamadore is the actual world and that "Earth" is how we perceive the world. Billy says Tralfamadore cannot be detected from Earth which is to say that we do not or cannot see the world for how it actually is.
I tried to warn you. Don't get too hung up on the "science". Vonnegut is a satirist, first and foremost -- in the business of, as you say, showing us the Earth as it actually is.
Delete"She had never been to war before. She had no idea what game was being played. Her name was Princess." p.52 (Referring to the dog the German soldiers had with them.)
ReplyDeleteSo I found all of my quotes near the beginning but did actually almost finish the book and overall really enjoyed it. This quote really spoke to me and kind of portrays the idea of the book so well for me. No one is prepared for war. No one knows what to expect and anything is possible.
On page 214 Vonnegut writes "So it goes." 4 times. Although it is the most common thing said in the book I hadn't seen it four times on one page. I feel like it is used to detach the author from the emotions that Billy may had been feeling in order to hide his true feelings. If he pushes it down and says, "So it goes." he won't have to deal with the pain, right?
ReplyDelete"One bird said to Billy Pilgrim, 'Poo-tee-weet?'" (page 215)
I don't like that it ends like this. It seems too unresolved. The story itself is resolved but I don't see the reasoning by this sentence. It just confuses me and I keep sounding our trying to figure out if the bird is supposed to be saying something meaningful. I know that sounds crazy but I don't get it? Can anyone help??
"It's meaningful in its very meaninglessness."
DeleteDr. Ouroborus
"Lionel Marble was a machine. Tralfamadorians, of course, say that every creature and plant in the Universe is a machine. It amuses them that so many Earthlings are offended by the idea of being machines." pg. 154
ReplyDeleteHarkening back to my earlier comment, if you look at the world objectively then you could agree that all humans and plants are in ways machines. We all serve a purpose to ourselves and the Earth, however we deny to look at it that way.
Of course, we could be machines. Or just part of an elaborate computer simulation. Wouldn't surprise me one bit.
DeleteEmily "Em" Begue says (at 5:41):
ReplyDelete"'What happens in 1968 will rule the fate of European optometrists for at least 50 years!... Jean Thiriart... is pressing for formation of a "European Optometry Society." The alternatives, he says, will be the obtaining of professional status, or, by 1971, reduction to the role of spectacle-sellers.'
Billy Pilgrim tried hard to care."
To me, this feels almost like a takeover of sorts, reminiscent of something that would happen in a war. Thiriart is saying "hey, join me or you'll have to figure something else out." If it were religion or government rather than optometry, it would be very similar to historical events from wars passed. I also like how Billy has to try to care, because that matches his views on the war: not very enthused or interested.
"They had been behind German lines before many times--living like woods creatures, living from moment to moment in useful terror, thinking brainlessly with their spinal chords."
ReplyDeleteThis quote got me thinking about living in the moment and I thought could we really experience terror if we are living moment to moment? Because fear is the idea or scenarios of something that can hurt you or effect you in a negative way and to be experiencing fear you must be thinking about the future or near future and not be focusing on what is right in front of you.
Meghna says:
ReplyDelete"I really did go back to Dresden ---- human bone meal in the ground." (Pg. 1)
Vonnegut was greatly disturbed by the destruction of Dresden. I can feel his anguish when he looked upon the poignant scene. I think when he says "human bone meal", he means that the people who died in Dresden had become "natural fertilizers" for the ground. In a few words, he introduces us to war's utter horrible world.