Read the article "Would You Send Your Kids to a School Where Students Make the Rules?"
Comment below. Please feel free to response (in a friendly and collegial manner ) to your classmates. And check back after the assignment is done, as I may comment on some of your comments.
"But there are such students, and there is no reason to ignore what they can teach us. For with little money, and little guidance, they are teaching themselves rather well indeed."
ReplyDeleteSarah Banks
I think this quote stuck with me so much because it breaks the mold that public schools so often try to make students fit into. All the rules and requirements in a school like Tolland High School build a box, and administration will be damned if we dont all fit in it by the time we're handed a diploma. But what about the students that cant stand math for four years, or are repulsed by the thought of chemistry and physics? Does that make them any less deserving of a diploma? In my opinion the answer is no, and the students at Sudbury Valley School are proof. Teenagers have young, incredible minds, and the parameters placed on us in traditional schooling restrict us from using them to their full potential. Given the opportunity to explore what we want to know about, the achievements that could be reached are well above any possible in a typical classroom. And aside from the lack of rules and requirements, the skills that are placed in the forefront are far more applicable to the rest of your life at the Sudbury school. Once you leave high school, are you going to wish you learned the formula for finding the slope of a line, or are you going to be glad you learned how to communicate with others and learn from them and what they have to offer? I think the students and staff at Sudbury High School are onto something, something that the rest of us should take notice of.
I think that the Sudbury students are a rare type. Imagine what would happen if the same system were suddenly applied to the 1000 or so students at THS? I wonder how many students I would be teaching.
DeleteTo be honest, I find nearly every policy of Sudbury Valley to be utterly ridiculous. The notion that letting students do essentially whatever they want for five hours a day can even be considered an education is unbelievable. The whole perspective that only what you love matters doesn't really hold water because to be prepared for the real world Sudbury claims they're preparing their students for requires someone to know more than just what they love. I love science, hate math, and don't always enjoy social studies or English. However, math is necessary for me to not only be able to pursue the career in science that I want, but also just to be scientifically literate in a way that allows me to exist without being completely ignorant of the world around me works. For social studies and English, I might find the content dry sometimes, but the truth is I'm going to be able to vote when the next election comes up and these studies have helped me develop reasonable opinions about the important issues surrounding me. This has all come from Tolland High School. Sudbury might claim that all their students are prepared in this way, but I don't buy that for a second when an average student has no idea who Martin Luther King Jr. is.
ReplyDeleteEven more importantly, traditional schooling teaches you to work hard and deal with stress and doing things you don't like. I spend 50-60 hours a week on studying so I can go to top universities, while a student at Sudbury really only has to loaf around campus for 25 hours a week to get a diploma. I have to imagine that I will be much better prepared academically and mentally for college after my school experience than a Sudbury student. I hate Tolland High School with a fiery passion, but I can't deny that it hasn't taught me valuable lessons about what it takes to succeed. I don't think that traditional schooling is really all that great (especially in terms of efficiently using the student's time and energy), but the solution to this simply can't be to basically abandon any semblance of education all together.
While reading this article, I actually thought about a discussion you had with Mrs. McGrath a while ago! It was when you two were arguing about whether it was right that the universities you're applying to abroad require you to only study what your major is. I think what brought it up was the fact that you'll never have to take French again! Anyways, it was interesting to read your opinion on the Sudbury Valley School! I recall that you said (It's quite possible I'm remembering the details of this discussion incorrectly so correct me if I'm wrong!) you don't see why you would need to study a subject that you won't even use at a job in the future. Therefore, I was expecting that you'd be all for this type of school! Mrs. McGrath's counterargument was that she believes studying a little bit of everything, a reflection of her liberal arts' education, made her a well rounded person. It's interesting to see that, at least in regards to high school, you kind of do agree with her statement after all!
DeleteHere's a good example of the non-traditional, electronic classroom. Nice response, Aiyla.
DeleteI'd like to see some kind of happy medium -- I agree with Jack that we need some broad-based basics. But it would be nice to have the time (and extant curiosity) to explore some new topics/ areas.
"But students can roam outside and play, or tinker on the piano, or draw. Everyone learns to read, eventually, although I met a couple of students who confessed that, while they could write by hand, they did not know cursive. They may do and study whatever they like. They may learn by building robots, or making up role-playing games with elaborate rules, or by serving on the budget committee, or by participating in the school administration, or in countless other ways. The current head of the school—the actual head of school, elected by the community—is an 18-year-old girl." This feels overwhelmingly like a daycare.
ReplyDeleteThe educational system at Sudbury is dreadful. I don't think anyone could truly believe that a school in which the only thing the Students know about Martin Luther King Jr. is that he was "a black politician?" is strides above the methods of any public school. Although flawed, the public school system allows us to gain an ample amount of intelligence on each field of study, so as to not seem uncultivated to the knowledge of everyone else around us, as I suspect the Sudbury Valley students will soon suffer from greatly. Surely with the requirement of 25 hours a week, there is a sizable amount of students who slack around evading work all together. The sole graduation requirement being "explain how you are prepared for adulthood", I have a lack of faith that students will have the wisdom and skills required to excel in college, not to mention other walks of life. A slight form of authority also has to be present in order for schooling to take place, and that authority is absolutely not provided by the students dictating the community rules and educational content.
A good daycare program definitely has an educational component to it -- although it shouldn't be like a classroom. And I'm sure there are plenty of other kids -- maybe even at our own school -- who don't know very much about MLK. (Myself, I haven't written in cursive since high school -- except for my "stylized" signature.) And don't forget the girl who had to pay three dollars for something she did -- a fine imposed by s jury of her peers.
Delete(All that said, Phil, I don't think this is a system for the masses.
Sudbury Valley School in is quite an interesting place. Being a student here at Tolland High School and having gone through the regular school system, I cannot say for sure whether I totally agree or disagree with Sudbury's policies. In my opinion, Sudbury's policies of no curriculum, no required classes, no age distinction and no time restrictions are not right. Foremost, having a curriculum is vital to learning; Sudbury not having one is a disadvantage. Without it, there are no guidelines to follow and students do not know what to expect from classes. Then, having no required classes limits the student' abilities and knowledge that could greatly be enhanced. Here, mandatory subjects, allowed me to browse classes that may become helpful in the future. Age distinction is another issue. The idea that high school aged students, if they want, can learn at a lesser level baffles me. The curriculum is set up for every grade depending on the average ages of the students. Also, to follow timely rules enforces discipline. If students are allowed to come in and go as they like, there is no order.
ReplyDeleteThough eighty percent of Sudbury’s alumni went to college in 2004, it is still not viable to me. The school says, “Children should be empowered, and if they are, they will do us proud.” This concept is true, but not to the extent that Sudbury advocates. Other than this, I think that residing in the United States and being an American citizen, students should know something of our leaders like Martin Luther King Jr., etc. It would do no harm to touch on the basics of every subject together with the students focusing on their prime ones. But, I have to say that our traditional schooling is not without its faults. If our education system was that successful, especially in high schools, the United States would not be ranked so low in the world in science and math. What I am seeing is one-sided instruction, where Science Technology Engineering Math (STEM) subjects are being sidelined. On top of that, our college professors say only twenty-six percent of high school students are prepared for college. Sudbury is quite like the Finnish school system. Finland has a very relaxed system. There is no stress given on studies and they stay for a very short amount time. Yet, Finland comes out on the top in the world in education. Despite being the largest and richest economy in the world, the education system in the United States is very expensive and difficult to afford for average families. I believe that Sudbury has a very good financial incentive, $8200 tuition for the first child per family yearly and less for additional children. This is way lower than our private schools and what our public schools spend on each student. There is no financial aid, but there is a fund to help families in need. Also, high expenses on individual students do not all produce brilliant ones. At Sudbury, students choose what subjects they enjoy. “In short, Sudbury Valley students relate to their work the same way that adults who love their jobs—many artists, writers, chefs; the very fortunate doctors and lawyers and teachers—relate to work: They chose it, so they like it.” The campus reminds me of Rabindranath Tagore’s “Santiniketan” in India, where classes are held outside in the lap of nature. It gives off a beautiful vibe and is refreshing. However opposing people are towards Sudbury, it is an acknowledged fact that the brain needs rest, as the old proverb goes, “All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy”. Though I would stay at Tolland High School, in spite of all its faults, I would not hesitate to recommend Sudbury to anybody near me. After all, we have to be prepared for adulthood, as Sudbury’s main aim is. It is also not correct to view them as lazing around. When you have your future in your own hands and you have to be responsible for it, you have to be more determined and focused.
For a little more about "Santiniketan", go here: http://indiatravelogue.com/leis/heri/heri10.html . But if you want to know more, you'll have to research it on your own, because this is not in our curriculum.
DeleteKirsten Shea
ReplyDelete"But the Sudbury advocates would also say that even if a given student never picks up on some bit of knowledge that we civilians deem essential, then so what? The tradeoff made at Sudbury is worth it: Every child will have some blind spots—and don’t children in most public schools, and even the best private schools, have blind spots?—but Sudbury children have a radical sense of empowerment and responsibility for their own education."
Truthfully, I think that Sudbury Valley School is a bit absurd and unbelievable. How can you even call this "education system" a school? There are only eight teachers to 150 students, the students have the same amount of votes as the teachers and foremost, the students get to pick what they want to learn about. The whole point of middle school and high school is to gain knowledge about different subjects, and then decide later what you enjoy learning and conducting research about. College is where you decide what you want to major in and spend the rest of your life working in that field. I feel that if the students are already narrowing their studies to one subject, they may get bored and frustrated later in life because they don't know anything more than one topic. Parents spend a great deal of their time searching for a place to give their children the best education possible, and honestly, Sudbury Valley School should not be a place where any students should attend. How can the students excel in life without slightly understanding different aspects of life; such as the how one student barely knew who Martin Luther King Jr. was. Additionally, how are the students attending Sudbury supposed to learn time management skills; they don't have to be anywhere at certain times and don't have to balance homework or schoolwork with extracurricular activities. Even though homework is dreaded by almost all kids everywhere, including me, the whole point of homework is to enforce what you just previously learned at school; it helps to apply the concepts and techniques for real world experiences. Teenagers need to figure out their core values and public/private education systems help to figure all that out. All in all, I believe it is important to introduce students to all aspects of education in order to open your eyes to new ideas. How will you know you don't like something if you've never tried it? The students who started attending Sudbury at a young age will never know if they find Biology, for example, intriguing or Calculus mind boggling because they don't have the desire to learn about it.
"The whole point of middle school and high school is to gain knowledge about different subjects, and then decide later what you enjoy learning and conducting research about." That would worry me, too (and this has been mentioned before on this page) about narrowing too early. We'd have a nation of Pokemon experts. But if curiosity is kept alive, one thing leads to another. I'm torn.
Delete"And while I don’t share the Sudbury disdain for public and more conventional private schools, I think that Sudbury has lessons for those of us committed to public education. Because of the tyranny of standardized tests, it would be difficult for my daughters' school to re-make itself along Sudbury lines. Many parents, persuaded that rigor and "high expectations" are what will move their children forward in life, would recoil at any effort to try. But I think there are aspects of the Sudbury schools that even a public school without a lot of wiggle room could borrow."
ReplyDeleteWe've all been veteran students for about 85% of our lives. We've taken most of the same classes, learned most of the same material, and met similar people. I've always, personally, that education can be a sort of double-edged sword. While some relish the opportunity to soak up new information and learn about the vast world we live in, others find it to be a stressful and tedious endeavor that can test a person's sanity. I feel both. We've all had classes where we would rather have a bottle of Jack and a handgun, but the truth is that the more we expand our minds and limitations the better off for the future we'd be. I found this article to be very interesting, with its concept and exploration of the topic. "Would you send your child to a school with no rules?" Ultimately for me; no. Yes, school can a be stressful and painful. However, I feel that exposing students to near-extreme amounts of stress is a necessary evil to education. God forbid I ever have children, but if I do I want them to know what it's like to have a deadline that seems nearly impossible or experience the demoralization of a bad grade on a test. While I may seem a bit cynical about this, I have a method to my madness. A school with no rules like Sudbury Valley doesn't provide nearly the same experiences as public or even private schools. I was completely dumbfounded when I read that one of the students from the school didn't know who Martin Luther King Jr. was. I have 3 year old cousins who know who he is. Also, a school with no grades doesn't provide the students with really any progress they could be making with a particular subject. I guess, according to Oppenheimer, the way the subjects work is that the students become interested in a certain subect and explore it to the last fine detail. But here's the thing. Without having to take certain classes like math classes or physics classes ( :( ) we might not ever be surprised about what we could be interested in. If I hadn't had taken Drafting I would probably never interested in engineering. With that said, since I took Drawing (my only art credit), I knew that being an architect wasn't for me, so the different experiences changed my outlook on what I wanted to do. If I have kids, I want them to fully take on the brunt of a regular school schedule and work load. I would want them to take chances and feel the pressure of facing the music about a poor grade. While I do believe public schools could be lightened up a bit, my life wouldn't be the same: I wouldn't have met great friends, I wouldn't have met great teachers, and wouldn't have learned the same life lessons. It's true that the Sudbury Valley School doesn't seem like a terrible place to be, but what's missing is something that only each individual (you) can figure out themselves.
"However, I feel that exposing students to near-extreme amounts of stress is a necessary evil to education." I will disagree with you on this one, 8Ball.
DeleteA big test could be stressful -- climbing the rope in the gym could be stressful -- but as a whole school shouldn't be. Time enough for that later. "Grace under pressure". "keeping your head when all around you are losing theirs". These are good skills, but they are mature skills. A strong, mature plant can withstand drought. The young ones it kills.
"...he will figure out somewhere in his adulthood who Martin Luther King Jr. was, and will know as much about him as the rest of us do. That as soon as he enters the workforce and gets that day off, he’ll want to know what it’s all about. That the habits of citizenship learned at Sudbury practically ensure that he’ll want to relate to his fellow citizens with empathy and candor, so if he discovers that there’s a man who’s a hero to many fellow Americans, a man whom he knows little about, he’ll take it upon himself to learn."
ReplyDeleteYes, it seems very silly to us that this student does not know who Martin Luther King, Jr. is. We were taught Dr. King's story at a very young age, so we would be quick to label this student as "unintelligent." What makes these students intelligent is their willingness to learn. So what if he doesn't know who MLK Jr. is? With his passion for learning, he will be eager to learn once he is introduced to this iconic figure. Once he is introduced, he would most likely be more willing to dig deeper and learn more about segregation. We, on the other hand, would be more likely to read the bare minimum and call it a day. As Mr. MacArthur has said multiple times in class, what we lack today is an eagerness to learn. We dread coming to school. This set up, I believe, would work well for the self-motivated and eager young minds.
With that being said, I also see the flaws. This school system could never just be introduced to public schools; half of our student body wouldn't show up. The fact that the students choose to be there is what makes it work - they are aware of the set up and respond positively to it. I also think that, personally, having gone through the typical schooling system, it would not work for me. With no set curriculum, I know I would feel completely lost and overwhelmed. Where would you start? How in depth would you go in different subject matters? Having grown up with it, I almost feel as though I need that teacher figure telling me what to do next.
I can also see both sides of the argument in the case of a student that only studies what interests them. Sometimes, through the years, your interests change and those which you used to hate, you find yourself interested in. If a student sticks with their original interest, they may never find what more there could be. But if they are sure of what they want to pursue as a career, then they really wouldn't need much other knowledge (i.e. a student looking to pursue english may not really ever need biology). I also am not sure how eager colleges would be to accept many students in this school system, even though alumni have been very successful.
How many of you have read King's "Letter from Birmingham Jail"? (Kudos to I.Mo if she had you do it. It's a provocative piece.) Interesting topic: How would Dr. King's reputation be different if he had not been gunned down? Would he still get a day?
Deletehttp://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html
To add to my above comment:
ReplyDeletehttp://searchingeyes.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/assessment-comic-climb-tree.jpg
I have seen this image on social media, I'm sure others have, too. But it just goes to show that nothing is for truly for everyone. Our school system doesn't work for everyone, and the Sudbury system certainly wouldn't work for everyone, either. But everyone is different, so who is to say that there is one way that everyone should learn?
Although I find this school mildly appealing because I would be able to do whatever I wanted basically, I have to disagree with the school as a whole. I believe that going to a school with "adult made" rules is an absolute must! How are children suppose to learn structure and discipline in a place where there seems to be little. I feel as though children learn better in structured settings. Some exploitative learning would be beneficial but not on the kids terms all the time. There have been tons of behavioral studies that show that kids NEED structure. I do disagree with the way that public schools handle certain things but there are flaws in every system everywhere you just have to weigh which ones mean more to you or not. I feel as though a student who attends Sudbury Valley School will not be prepared for the realities of life. When you go out and get a job you don't get to sit down with your co workers and make a set of rules and negotiate them with your boss. There is no way that a person can come out of a facility where they basically make the rules and have to live in an authoritative society. In theory it would be perfect to teach kids young to be involved in their lives and helping to decide what will happen to themselves and those around, but the reality of politics today, that isn't the case at all.
ReplyDelete"There is no way that a person can come out of a facility where they basically make the rules and have to live in an authoritative society." And that's the best argument I've seen so far in Sudbury's favor.
DeleteBTW, what would you do, Emily?
"everything that I remember is from classes in subjects I loved: history, English, French, and philosophy. I remember no geometry, trigonometry, or calculus, no chemistry or physics—none—and scant biology. If I had been at a Sudbury school, and spent those lab hours just reading history and novels instead, would I be worse off, or better off?"
ReplyDeleteI think this poses a very interesting question, whether or not spending our time learning things we don't care about and won't use is even worth learning in the first place. To some degree it is necessary to learn things we don't like such as the math we do need in every day life. As someone who works in retail I have experienced the obnoxious experience that is someone who can't do basic math. But besides the basics is it really necessary for someone who plans to have a career in law enforcement to learn calculus? I took 4 years of Spanish I've already forgotten because I hardly ever encounter Spanish-speakers in Tolland. In most regards that makes those Spanish classes a waste of my time. If we had more freedom to choose what is important for us as an individual to learn with our future careers in mind we would probably enjoy learning a lot more. The only problem with that is the majority of high school students, nevermind middle schoolers and all the way down to the 4 year olds at Sudbury, have no idea what we want to do with our lives. We need to experience different subjects and fields to make an educated decision about a future career. Ideally students who are unsure of their career path would take a variety of classes if allows to choose entirely on their own, however, this would not always be the case.
This article also made me think of students in other countries, especially China that I've read about. These students are much more motivated to learn. Everything a teacher in China gives her students to learn they will work their hardest at. Sure, they're motivated by the threat of not being offered a job at all when they are finished with school but really we have the same problem here don't we? With the amount of unemployment and adults working minimum wage jobs in America shouldn't our students be more motivated to learn and prepare for the working world? Maybe more freedom in subject matter would be the motivation we need.
I can't remember much Geometry either, although I do use the Pythagorean Theorem to find a right angle. But it taught abstract thinking, so it would be in my school.
Delete“She’ll figure it out. Maybe she’ll ask her parents. Maybe she has allowance. It’s her responsibility.”
ReplyDeleteI do like the idea of instilling responsibility in children at such a young age, but this might be the only thing Sudbury Valley has gotten right. Sure, the kids are researching and experimenting on their own, but not everyone can learn or benefit from self-teaching. I feel like I could get the same degree of education as these students if I stayed home doing online reading and research all day. I don’t know why anyone would want to pay $8,200 in tuition each year for their child to simply do as they please.
In no way could Sudbury Valley prepare students for the SAT’s or college life. They work on a muddled schedule, which is not something they’ll experience in the real world. When applying for jobs later in their lives, these kids are going to be shocked that they have to work set hours and study what someone tells them to instead of what they please. I can only hope that their parents will prepare them. This is one of the few ordeals that Tolland High School has primed me for, as we will make an easy transition to semester scheduling in college. Of the 80 percent of the 119 alumni from Sudbury that supposedly continued on the college, how do we know they succeeded? We don’t.
Although many complain about our public educational systems today, at least it is a solid framework that seems to have been working for years. It is very important that we have at least some background in each subject of knowledge, even if it doesn’t seem to be useful or we don’t like it. And no, I don’t believe I will have to use calculus ever again, but the methods and practices I used to learn it will most definitely help me again in the future. Sometimes you must do things you don’t like to, and Sudbury students will never know how to handle that.
"When applying for jobs later in their lives, these kids are going to be shocked that they have to work set hours and study what someone tells them to instead of what they please."
DeleteSeems to be a low standard. School prepares us for the long years of drudgery ahead of us. Don't forget, nobody comes out of high school, or college, fully formed. We're all works-in-progress (or we should be).
“They may do and study whatever they like. They may learn by building robots, or making up role-playing games with elaborate rules, or by serving on the budget committee, or by participating in the school administration, or in countless other ways. The current head of the school—the actual head of school, elected by the community—is an 18-year-old girl."
ReplyDeleteThe Sudbury Valley School is a very unique school system which previously I was not aware existed in the United States. I can see how it may resonate greatly with some select students, likely the more motivated and curious ones, but I feel that if a general school system is needed to educate large numbers of students throughout the country, this is not the most effective, or efficient, one. Personally, I believe that I would become bored eventually of what I decide I want to solely study in high school. Spending all of high school only focusing on one subject area and then doing the same in college as well as finding a job in this subject area after all my schooling would grow to be tedious for me. High school is the time to explore different subject areas and college is the time to buckle down and become deeply knowledgeable in a single subject area. Many students would not realize that they should spend their time at Sudbury Valley School exploring different subject areas and would instead focus on only what they think they are interested in because this is the path that seems to be promoted by this school system.
Additionally, with the completely open curriculum, I would feel overwhelmed and not know where to even start. Lots of students, myself included, only work efficiently with a structured curriculum and would not be motivated enough to study and explore subject areas on their own. Many would not even know what to study. A student may only discover that he is fascinated by engineering if a teacher first tells him to build a robot. From the outside, constructing a robot may have appeared a daunting and overly-complicated task that that same student may not have attempted had he not been told to.
Finally, it makes sense for schools to be run by students since students are the reason the school exists. Who knows better what students want in an education than students themselves? However, adults have more experience with running an establishment than an 18-year-old girl has, so they may be able to better cope with problems which arise since they have experienced similar obstacles in the past. Although I understand that it may be beneficial for a student if he is in a high ranking position in a school, it may not be beneficial for the school as a whole because that student will likely make mistakes as he is learning along the way. It is best for students to become educated in high school and gain those positions after college when they are fully educated about how to successfully hold this position. I am a co-president of a club at Tolland High School, and I honestly feel that I have improved tremendously at being a leader through this. Through holding this position, I have learned what to do (and what not to do) when leading others because I have faced the consequences when I made a decision which does not benefit the club. It is best that we make mistakes in school to save us from making these mistakes in a more serious, real-life situation where we cannot afford to make errors. I now feel that I am better prepared to hold a high ranking position in the world once I leave this school. It is crucial that students initially learn the challenges of possessing a lower-ranked leadership position before they start holding high-ranked positions, such as the principal of a school.
"Additionally, with the completely open curriculum, I would feel overwhelmed and not know where to even start."
DeleteInteresting point. We could probably count on innate curiosity carrying us a long way, but would we know enough about enough? Would we end up like Victor Frankenstein, studying all the wrong stuff?
“During my visit to the school, I asked one student—a tall, refined, preppy lad, of about age 16—if he knew who Martin Luther King was.”
ReplyDeleteWhen I read the response the boy gave to this question I asked myself “Does it really matter?” This guy is obviously not going to major in history but because of the approach the school that he goes to has, he is probably way ahead of the game in some other subject than normal students his age are. Today students are expected to know facts that can simply be looked up on a computer, which I think is ridiculous and unrealistic. If we know our society functions as whole system why do we continue to make the same parts? Why do we continue to send students to school where everyone learns the same things?
Someone wouldn’t want to send their kid to this school because they believe their children wouldn’t learn anything because they would spend their whole time playing and wouldn’t get the benefits of being under pressure and working under stressful situations. If we were to send a high school student to this kind of school of course they wouldn’t do anything for the first few days. But after a while that teenager would get bored and would want to learn. Children are naturally curious and the only thing that changes as they get older is they lose their passion for learning because they get enrolled in schools like the ones we have today where they are obligated to learn a little bit of everything whether it interests them or not. .Just because of their age we shouldn’t look at children as incapable of being in charge of their own learning; we should trust them to know what is best for them and to know what they like or at least discover it. Which I think is more realistic because society functions on people who specialize in different areas and Sudbury Valley School just makes this easier. We should let students specialize in what they want to because someone who specializes in one area is more of a contributor to society than someone who knows a little bit about everything and a lot about nothing.
Compared to school today a student could love a subject and wouldn’t initially pursue it because the amount of work and homework given would overwhelm them and the class would no longer be enjoyable; and this is a big issue because when students graduate they don’t know what career they want to pursue because they don’t know what they like. So many are left with having to rediscover their likes and dislikes which wastes time and money in college.
Someone argued that students from Sudbury Valle School don’t get the benefit of stress. Stress is only beneficial for getting something done that you don’t want to do. Students who attend Sudbury Valle school probably don’t ever feel stress because they never do anything they don’t want to and nor would they need to because someone who grows up around the mentality that you learn only what you want to, would most likely never feel stress because they would pursue a career they love and would do things because they want to and would most likely be more successful.
My science education was short-circuited by school. My high school biology -- college, too -- was all about cellular biology. Building blocks, sure, but I'm more interested in buildings -- whole plants and animals, ecosystems. If I had started in there, I probably would have gotten around to cells later on. As it was, I went in a different direction.
DeleteIf you do like biology, here's a link for you. It's a blog to go along with a very interesting book I read last year.
P. S. Working on my HTML skills. See how I got an actual link in there this time? Teaching myself (with help from the internet). Straight out of Sudbury!
Delete“The Sudbury Valley School is a dangerous place to visit, as I did earlier this month. It upends your views about what school is for, why it has to cost as much as it does, and whether our current model makes any sense at all.”
ReplyDeleteI have felt very much the same about school at one point. I visited a college by the name of Hampshire College earlier this school year, in November. This college is very different from typical colleges and school, and similar to Sudbury Valley. There are no grades, at least in the sense of numbers or letters. The curriculum is very lenient. For example, there are no preliminary classes you need to take freshman year, like most colleges, with 500 or more students sitting in the same lecture hall. You may choose whichever courses interest you. When I was there, I was able to sit in on a few classes, and it was quite an experience. Most of their classes are not your typical courses. One of the classes I sat in on was a course called “Pattern and Coat Color.” This combined math skills, by measuring and comparing patterns, and a science aspect of determining why certain patterns occur. It was completely different from most high school or college classes, where you would simply be memorizing equations or finding derivatives (UCONN Physics anyone?). You can choose many courses like this, and it is completely up to you. It was a very different experience. That is why I can understand the idea behind Sudbury. When I visited Hampshire, I was thrilled by the idea of no grades. Now, that’s not to say that I agree with the idea of a more open and free school. After some thought, I began to realize that Hampshire just wasn’t the right place for me. The same goes for if I were to send my children to Sudbury. The atmosphere is just not structured enough to foster what a child needs as they grow up. Having structure can reassure them, make them more confident. That is why I believe the current system, despite it’s flaws, would be better for my child than a school like Sudbury would be.
That's what I always say about choosing a college: it's like choosing a spouse. You're not looking for the "best" one out there, but the best one for you. (More HTML -- italics!)
Delete“On a personal note, an inspection of my own high school transcript—from a very rigorous, and expensive, high school—forced me to confess that everything that I remember is from classes in subjects I loved: history, English, French, and philosophy. I remember no geometry, trigonometry, or calculus, no chemistry or physics—none—and scant biology. If I had been at a Sudbury school, and spent those lab hours just reading history and novels instead, would I be worse off, or better off?”
ReplyDeleteSorry to steal your quote Jen, but these lines stuck with me while reading too. Last semester ended less than three weeks ago and already I have forgotten most of what was pounded in to my head from August to January. The one class I will definitely remember is European history, because that’s really the only class I had any interest in. I find that what you enjoy or find interesting is what stays with you, which is why people love trivia and fun facts. In most classes, especially math classes, I constantly find myself asking what the point is. Why should I bother learning this? And the classic, when will I ever use this in real life? In all honesty, I highly doubt that I will be using the quadratic formula in my every day routine when I’m older. On the other hand, there are many people who are interested in math and in certain careers that will be using the quadratic formula. So to an extent, some of the education provided for public schools will be useful. It gives us a base, a little taste of everything so later on in places like college we can further pursue our interests. How will you know if something’s out there if you’ve never heard of it? Personally, I can’t function without some form of structure or guidance. When I’m left to complete an assignment with little to no direction from a teacher, I find myself incredibly confused and frustrated. Maybe this is because I’ve been trained since kindergarten to follow the rules and do what I’m told, so individual thought and creativity has slowly been fading out of my brain. So in some ways, maybe the Sudbury schools have got something right with allowing kids to explore and fuel their own education. I would say that most adults continue their own education based on their own choices, but only after years of more structured education that helped them make their life decisions. Also- I have no clue how any of this Sudbury students go to college. After an initial education like what they received at Sudbury, I don’t see how they could perform well at a university. It just seems like the General Ed courses would overwhelm them due to no previous knowledge going into it. Overall I think that Sudbury schools have ideas with good intentions, but in the grand scheme of things I don’t see how they could really prepare a child for the real world. I would never send my children there.
"When I’m left to complete an assignment with little to no direction from a teacher, I find myself incredibly confused and frustrated."
DeleteWell, that's because. . .
"Maybe this is because I’ve been trained since kindergarten to follow the rules and do what I’m told, so individual thought and creativity has slowly been fading out of my brain."
Oh. Never mind. You got it.
This article really baffled me. There are 'schools' out there were kids don't actually get an education? I mean really, isn't the whole point of school to learn? Those who believe in the Sudbury way of learning argue the their way of learning is more organic, as they so boldly state on their site, but in reality what they are saying is that their way of learning is primitive. When they use a word like organic they are merely putting up a more appealing façade to the truth. Nothing is ever perfect, our educational system is no exception, but these kids who attend Sudbury Valley Schools are NOT receiving an education that is up to par with our modern day standards. While it saddens me that most students nowadays don’t hunger for knowledge, the solution isn’t giving kids a no structure no expectation environment. “But I think there are aspects of the Sudbury schools that even a public school without a lot of wiggle room could borrow. For example, Sudbury Valley and its peer schools have rejected the overly regimented school day, where learning stops the moment the minute hand hits the right spot; the pointless segregation of students by age and year; and the anxiety that comes with grading.” The thing that upsets me the most about all this is the thought that all ages are treated as equals. There are thousands of studies behind the curriculum in each grade level. All I can picture are a bunch of older kids becoming babysitters to the younger kids. And as far as the school days go I can see a benefit in maybe the starting time in schools but not anything as drastic as allowing students to come and go as they please. Discipline is needed in people’s lives in general. A lack of discipline just creates a chaotic environment.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing that I can’t wrap my head around is the independent learning part. These children are very limited in what they want to do with their lives. I went to their site and watched this short clip of the experiences these students have and saw that they were majorly lacking in a lot of ways. Math and Science were nearly nonexistent throughout the whole thing! A student said that his first year there he focused on video games the whole time! These children aren’t exposed to a variety of topics so how are they supposed to know what they want to do with their lives. If I hadn’t taken Drafting, unlike 8ball3456, I would never have chosen to become an Architect.
As much as some students complain about Tolland High School I don’t think they fully understand just how many opportunities they are given. Not all high schools can say they have not only can take an art class but they can explore art in many different ways such as sculpture or pottery or photography and even a jewelry making class. This holds true for all other departments as well. Public School may come with a lot of stress from crazy deadlines and very high expectations in the testing world, but this benefits students. If a student fails something it teaches them a lesson. Students are ultimately prepared to handle the deadlines and less than ideal work situations they are sure to encounter.
I can understand parents trying to give their children a better school experience then what they had. I can see the appeal the Sudbury Valley School provides to some. In the end though I know that I will never send my children to anything like the Sudbury School.
"All I can picture are a bunch of older kids becoming babysitters to the younger kids." Babysitters at worst, but mentors at best. As it is, the best a lot of older kids can do is model bad behavior for their younger sibs.
DeleteAnd kudos to you for checking out their web site. (Why did you do that? That was not part of the assignment!) But you inspired me -- see, it can me good to mix young with old -- and I discovered that there's a Sudbury School in New Britain -- the Mountain Laurel School, and here's their Facebook page, if anyone's interested.
(By the way, did you know that the mountain laurel -- Connecticut's state flower -- blooms only every other year? Cool.
"And that’s when it occurred to me what my daughters are getting at their public school. Like the Sudbury students, they too are getting the values of their community. And in this case their community is their neighborhood—or, more generally speaking, the kind of progressive, spirited neighborhood in which we live. What their public school offers is not so much Martin Luther King as Martin Luther King-plus-recycling, or what that adjacency represents: a complex of values and sensibilities, both canon and custom, that their parents, teachers, and town have concurred on: tolerance, environmentalism, don’t-litter, all people are created equal, and so on."
ReplyDeleteI think that although there are unique and interesting opportunities at the Sudbury schoo, students are given too much freedom. Many of the things that they experience there they can also experience at home or with friends. Like if a student at Sudbruy enjoys yoga then they would most likely focus on that and not so much on their other courses, especially because they aren't held up to the standards of public schools. But if a student of a public school enjoys yoga, they still have to do their school work, thus gaining not only knowledge about yoga (obtained on their free time) but also about topics overviewed in school. There is too much liberty at the Sudbury school and although there are some good points and lessons that can be learned there, there is a reason that public schools and their methods of teaching still reign; because it works. It always has, it always will.
Keep reading that Kerouac, and get back to me!
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Delete"There is no curriculum, and no required classes, although sometimes students organize to ask a staff member to give a class on a certain subject. Nobody is required to be anywhere at any given time. School opens at 8:30 in the morning and closes at 5:30 in the afternoon, and students are expected to be present for at least five hours during that time"
ReplyDeleteThe prospect of a school like Sudbury seemed appealing to me when Mr. MacArthur first talked about it in class but now it looks downright ridiculous. I really think the idea of giving students more responsibility and choice when it comes down to education is a great concept but I don't see exactly how what Sudbury does works since there is almost no structure. In a place like Sudbury almost nothing is necessarily required from students. Yeah they expect kids to be motivated to go on and sort of explore things on there own, but the system seems to easy to abuse. To me it seems like a system this loose could be destructive to a lot of the students' possibilities and potential. You never really know what you like or want until you try it and at Sudbury you're not required to do anything you do not want to. There have been countless times in my own life where I thought I would dread taking a course that I ended up really enjoying. Sure not everybody needs higher level math or science for what they want to go into but that’s not to say that these courses would not be beneficial to them. It is crazy that there is no curriculum or required class at Sudbury. I think there being almost no baseline required would hurt a lot of kids in the real world rather tan help them. A system like this would work for some students, but our current system is probably still better for most. Realistically I think most people at Sudbury would go to college after their schooling like many people in public schools go because of increased job opportunities, yet I feel like college could be a shock to many Sudbury students. If you never had grades before and were never required to take any courses you did not like, then the quick pace of college, Gen Ed requirements and being graded on your work for the first time in your life would leave one in shock. I still do love the idea that students get a legitimate to take part in their school as far as implementing new ideas goes. I ran to be a class officer in freshman year because I thought that meant that I could somehow make Tolland High School a better place for students but it quickly became apparent that there wasn't much I could do other than help plan dances and collect class dues. I know they have some sort of a "student senate" program now but that has not really changed anything yet. I feel like something as simple as a brief once or twice a week structured study hall is completely feasible idea that would help a lot of kids at THS out, but I don't think the administration at Tolland would ever allow for it. At the end of the day I think it's all about balance and even though our school isn't as loose as it could be, Sudbury is too easy going.
"In a place like Sudbury almost nothing is necessarily required from students. Yeah they expect kids to be motivated to go on and sort of explore things on there own, but the system seems to easy to abuse."
DeleteMaybe the reason people feel compelled to abuse a system is that they feel abused by it.
And you've hit once again on a common feeling expressed time and again in this thread -- that if we weren't required or compelled to learn, we would all naturally avoid it. Which says something about our system.
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ReplyDelete"At school, they say, children should be empowered, and if they are, they will do us proud."
ReplyDeleteThis is certainly one of the major things I hope to get out of 13 years of schooling -to feel empowered! After all, if we don't feel like we can make a change, that we have power to make a difference, whether it's in our own lives or in others', how are we going to do anything in life after high school? Unfortunately, I think one of the major flaws of schools today is that kids can start to go just for the sake of going. One of my teachers last year said, "If you're going to school just to go through the motions of it, you might as well kill yourself." Now while this was an extreme way of looking at the situation, it is true! Many of us aren't getting anything out of going to school because we feel we're not studying anything that we actually care about. When asked why we go to school, we answer, "Because we have to..." It's no wonder why little kids respond with a mere "Nothing" when asked what they did at school. To them it is nothing!
While Sudbury Valley School does solve the problem of being able to study what you want, I believe this option is only suitable for those who are highly self motivated. If you are not self motivated, as others have stated in previous posts, the fragile system of this school will be abused. I also would be quite skeptical of sending from an age as young as four. With children having no guidance as to what subjects they should learn, it's odd that the school admits children from age four. A four year old isn't going to say, "Today, I want to learn the alphabet and how to read!" magically! I know if my little four year old brother had his way, he would be watching Mickey Mouse all day! Little kids need a little push, a little motivation to study the necessities like letters, numbers and colors. Without this, I would imagine, due to the fact that their learning begins at a much later age, their brain develops at a much slower rate than those who start learning the essentials, or the Common Core, at public school.
"Perhaps that's because students at Sudbury are, in fact, treated as full adults."
This is another idea that I believe is essential to our schooling experience. However, I do think there's a proper age to treat kids as full adults. Does treating a four year old really make that much sense? How are he or she going to have the common sense or knowledge to make a meaningful decision or vote on anything? This logic of the school makes no sense at all to me, especially considering they don't even forcefully provide the four year old with the proper knowledge to make a wise decision. Children simply don't have the essential background to be treated as adults, and more importantly, be given the leadership responsibilities of an adult at such a young age!
Nevertheless, I do admire the countless opportunities this school gives to lead. Disregarding the fact that appointing a five year old as a member of the Judicial Committee is a little nonsensical, the fact that they do give everyone a leadership opportunity is a precious thing. I only wish Tolland High School had more leadership opportunities! (However, as a member of Student Council, I am proud to say leadership opportunities are being created through the Student Senate program!) After four years at THS, I was finally able to find a leadership position fitting to me during my junior year, as co-president of World Language Club, and this year as Board of Ed Representative, but I only wish these opportunities or others were available my freshman year; perhaps, I just had not looked hard enough for them then. In summary, I believe following a revised (in reference to the age) version of the leadership opportunities Sudbury Valley School instills in their school would be a great addition to Tolland High School and other public schools! I would be proud to send my kids to a school that values sensible young leadership!
"One of my teachers last year said, 'If you're going to school just to go through the motions of it, you might as well kill yourself'."
DeleteSheesh! I hope you're paraphrasing.
One of the earlier posts mentioned adopting not the whole Sudbury program, but elements of it. I would love the extended school day (with students attending the same number of hours, but earlier or later, as fitting with their needs).
A quick side note: I thought the State Board of Education had laws in place to prevent schools like this with such an open curriculum from existing? Does the Common Core and other standards not apply to schools that aren't public? It's quite surprising that a school that students can leave from with such a variety of different experiences, some more beneficial than others, can even exist and be considered a school in today's society!
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure what the standards are that apply to private schools, or to home-schooling for that matter. One big factor would be how a private school was or was not accepted by colleges. And the Sudbury students go onto colleges.
Delete"Because they are never made to take a class they don't like, they don't rue learning." I have to admit, there has been many a day when I have rued my classes. Math, usually. But as I get older, I have grudgingly accepted that unpleasant classes are a part of learning. Much as I would have loved to ignore algebraic formulas, it was important that I did not. Part of school is learning how to deal with struggles. Life is full of incidents where you have to do things you don't enjoy, and my worry about something like the Sudbury school is that students who have been allowed to exercise free will would not be prepared for that. Unfortunately, we live in a world where abiding by the system is the expectation. These kids have been allowed to learn at their own pace, and in a perfect world, that would be wonderful. But in the real world, it is not your personal pace that is respected. There are deadlines and guidelines and rules, and part of education is learning how to work with the system. That is as much a part of school as the curriculum. I think that the idea of such a school is wonderful. But in practice on a wider scale, it would be a detriment to the 'system', and that, in most walks of life, takes precedence.
ReplyDeletePlease note my hypocrisy, complaining about how working at your own pace is impractical, and submitting a day too late. My humblest apologies.
DeleteWell done, class. Good replies -- must have been an interesting article. Check out some of the links suggested above.
ReplyDeleteSo I realize I am very late. Anyway, better late then never right? At least I remembered today. I really liked this article. Personally I would totally go to that school. I think it provides an opportunity that isn't available anywhere else. It allows for students to really grow and learn about how life really works. It seems they have a system of punishment that is reasonable and a good example of how you will be punished once you are an adult. The girl had to pay two dollars. Given that's not a lot of money it is real. When you break the law as an adult nobody is going to care if you apologize for your mistake they will require a fine or payment of some sort. Time-outs don't exist when your 25. I really think you could learn more important things in life at a Sudbury school. Such as paying taxes. I am sure each of us can ask our parents but it is something we need to know how to do once we are on our own and we don't get that opportunity at public school. I also think you would learn to succeed and be a happier person. There would not be the stress of studying for hours for a test in a subject that you really struggle with. I don't know about the rest of you but it really disappoints me when i study really hard for a test and then get a C because it just doesn't make sense. Where at the Sudbury school you could try learning something and if its not for you, you don't have to waste your time and energy. Especially when you could go focus and put your energy into something you love yet achieve at. I am more likely to work hard in a class I really enjoy then one that just frustrates me. I think it would be the coolest thing ever to go to a Sudbury school. I kind of wish I could've gone there instead of here. I just feel you are more prepared to society after school then just here and now. I can see how great it would be for those people who never did well in high school but are extremely smart. I work at a software company and a ton of the programmers didn't do so hot in high school and some didn't even go to college but they are some of the brightest people I have ever met. I think these schools will be popping up more and more around America. Things are changing and these types of schools are more necessary then they were 50 years ago. I really love this idea and believe it would be great for society. Just my thoughts. Again I apologize for my lateness.
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