Here's why -- the love story, between Jim Tyrone and Josie Hogan, is beautiful, complex, and tormented. Now you take Romeo and Juliet: he was hot for her, she was hot for him; not much of a story, really. I can't tell you now about the nature of the characters or the relationship -- you'll have to discover that for yourself.
The play is set in Connecticut, of course, but back in the 1920's. It's more of a rural, agricultural Connecticut, compared to our Connecticut of suburban commuters in their McMansions.
And the playwright, Eugene O'Neill is a Connecticut native. And he's a heavyweight. As should become apparent as you read this.
Be sure to leave your name when you leave your response.
Hi everybody. I just finished A Moon for the Misbegotten and I was confused about the motives of some of the characters. For instance, I was wondering if anyone could explain to me why Phil Hogan lied about Jim planning to sell the farm. Did he really think that Jim was going to sell it or was he actually trying to trick Josie into meeting and falling further in love with Jim? If the later is true, was it really for her happiness or for the money? It was kind of hard to tell how Josie and Phil's relationship was as well as what his character would do, with his being drunk and not making sense for some of the key parts of the story. Some other things that confused me were whether or not Josie was actually a virgin (though, at the end, it seems that she is and was just lying to set up a sort of reputation) and if Jim really wanted to die as soon as possible. I guess I understand the basics of the plot but am having a hard time with the characters and their personalities. Thank you for any insight you can provide.
ReplyDeleteMegan Steinhilber
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteMegan- I got the impression that Hogan was genuine when he claimed he was in it for Josie's happiness rather than the money. To quote Jim (though I loathe to put stock in anything Jim says- more on that later), he worships the ground Josie walks on. Even if he is a sleazy, sleazy little man. His love for his daughter could very well be the only redeeming trait he has.
ReplyDeleteThe scene where Josie confesses to being a virgin had me cringing all the way through. I had come to respect this character who, for all her faults, had unabashedly sexually liberated herself even while living as a woman in a male-dominated period of American history. Now, the mere fact that this image is proven false is not what bothers me. You don't need to bed an entire town (or even a single member of the town) to be a strong female character. What bothers me is that Jim makes it clear that much of Josie's unique value as a person lies solely in the fact that she is a virgin. Not only does Josie not call him out on this attitude, but her first reaction to Jim's attempt to force sex from her was not to call him out on his own behavior, but rather a shocked cry of, "I'm not a whore!". Even this domineering woman seems disgusted by the idea of her own sexuality.
This all leaves me to wonder if all the condemning of female sexuality is just the author's attempt to reflect the mood of the times, or was his genuine opinion. Since it came out in the 1940's, I'm guessing the latter? Oh well.
I think that Jim's attitude toward Josie's virginity is reflective of the attitude of the era the play is set in. However, I think when Josie is yelling "I'm not a whore!" at Jim it's because she sees that he has mistaken for for the blonde prostitute he met on the train, not because she feels that her sexuality actually makes her a whore. I think it could also be because of the way that Jim approached her. She had been coming on to him out of love, and he reciprocated out of drunken lust, making her feel like an object.
DeleteHi everybody! A couple of days ago I finished A Moon for the Misbegotten. This was finally a play that I really enjoyed. I found it to be puzzling while at the same time exciting and full of passion. One thing that I found to really capture my attention was the relationship between Phil Hogan and Josie. Hogan is constantly throwing deep insults to Josie. Whether it be about her body or her actions, it seems as though that it all he does. For most of the book, these insults seem to not even phase Josie. However, by the end O'Neill writes "She comes out, a fixed smile on her lips, her head held high, her face set defiantly. But she has evidently been crying." Although there is not other mention of her sadness, it seems as though all of those insults are in fact hurting her. This really interests me because Josie is such a strong character and she can easily give back what Hogan dishes out. Is there something underneath that is not showing through or was this just a one-time incident? Have all of these insults really been hurting her or can she just brush it off? What also puzzles me about this subject is that Hogan, as Sarah said, seems to have that "redeeming trait" of the love for his daughter. There are moments during the play that this really shines through, however not two seconds after these moments does he throw another insult. It is the border line playful/ hurtful comments that I think is confusing but also adds to the dynamic of the characters.
ReplyDeleteMegan- I agree wholeheartedly with you when you say that the characters are very confusing. In my opinion, they seem to be, well, like onions. They have to be peeled back one layer at a time until you get the the middle. And its not just one character, each character seems to be extremely dynamic in their own way. I honestly think this stems from Eugene O'Neill's childhood and upbringing. I don't know if you read the introduction, but his mother was a morphine addict and died, and his father was borderline crazy. He grew up in a house where, as Stephen Black puts it, "common sense was rare." And it seems as though O'Neill's life was seemingly as complicated as Josie, Hogan and Jim. I can see a great resemblance in the lives of Josie and O'Neill.
Your comments on the issue of figuring out the relationship between Hogan and Josie would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
Nicole Howard
Nicole- I completely agree with your thoughts about how Hogan's statements have been somehow hurting Josie and now all of a sudden she begins to cry. It seems like she had been letting all of those comments bottle up inside of her and nos she can't contain her frustration anymore. However, I thought that the reason why Josie was crying had to do with Jim somehow-but I am not positive. Or maybe it had to do with the way she thought how she looked because she was always calling herself an "ungly cow," and she didn't want Jim to see her this way-again I am not positive. During the play though, it seemed like Josie was able to "brush off" these comments because she would just insult her father right back again. Additionally, I agree that these comments and actions towards each other do add some depth to the play because it shows how one minute they can be harshly insulting on another, but towards the end Hogan made remarks that made is sound like he was just looking out for his daughter.
DeleteKirsten Shea
One more thought to add-I feel like the relationship between Hogan and Josie was a "love/hate relationshipt", or it seemed that way. It may have to do with the fact that Josie didn't have a mother growing up, which resulted in her closely relating to her father. I remember in the play it stated that Josie was the only one who was able to put up with Hogan, and this seems to be true, especially at the end of the play when Josie said she was going to leave her father, but later tells him that she was only kidding. I feel that deep inside Josie and Hogan do love eachother, but it is hard for them to express their feelings towards one another-it may have to do with the fact that they are so similiar they are different? I'm not sure if it helps, but it was a little hard to explain, I hope you understand what I was trying to say.
DeleteKirsten Shea
Kirsten- I think I get what you're trying to say. I feel that Josie and Hogan express their love for one another through the teasing and taunting. They put up with one another because they love each other. Even though Hogan seems to have used Josie, I think he has always kept her best interests at the front of his mind. It wasn't clear to me that they ever hated each other, but that they struggle like any other family does.
DeleteKelsey Riesbeck
Nicole-I was able to come to the conclusion that all the insults really were hurting her. She built up this wall/ reputation of not being a virgin and lacking in innocent so she could give off the persona of being stronger than she really was when in reality she is a self conscience of her appearance and personality. You could see how deeply strung her self esteem issues were when she spent the night with Jim and how whenever he would compliment her, she would shoot him down with something negative about herself.
ReplyDeleteWhile reading this book I really enjoyed the depth to Hogan's character. He was portrayed as a nasty man that was cheap and a drunk but as the play progresses his "redeeming trait" showed his true compassion and purpose for his existence. All of his other children were a disappointment but his love for his daughter is what really kept him strong and alive. Josie was his rock, his life line and he obviously loved her. When Josie threatened to leave you truly saw Hogans weakness and his dependence on Josie.
Allison Nadeau
I could not agree more with your first paragraph about Josie's confidence level and how she built up the wall. It was one of the main things that really bothered me throughout!!!! Glad someone else felt the same way!
DeleteIn contrast to Nicole, I really didn’t find any enjoyment in reading this play (sorry, Nicole!). I found the characters to be almost bipolar in every aspect, from Josie’s ‘you can’t push me around’ attitude doing a complete 180 to ‘I’m actually an in-love virgin’ and Hogan’s ‘I’m a cunning genius and will get what I want’ to suddenly being ‘I actually wanted to set my daughter up with the man I knew she loved all along’. It was almost like they were becoming completely different characters by the end of the play; almost like character development gone too far.
ReplyDeleteMaybe that’s just me and you could argue that it’s a look into human nature – wearing a mask to hide who you really are and your intentions in order to protect yourself from the cold, cruel world we live in – but in my opinion, it made the play hard to follow (when they would switch ‘masks’ halfway through a monologue) and ruined my interest in the play entirely.
Veronica Spadaro
I absolutely agree with your frustration, every character had hidden motives and double meanings behind their dialogue. Although it was hard to follow and confusing I think this did add to the suspense and mystery however.
DeleteI agree with you both completely. I finished this at the beginning of the summer and have since procrastinated on discussing it, simply trying to make sense of the characters and their personalities. While I enjoyed the book enough, it had some sort of tone to it that just didn't sit well with me. By the end of the story I almost liked Hogan, something I was not expecting to happen. His devotion to his daughter and her happiness, (seemingly disguised as arrogance and rudeness in the beginning of the book, is admirable. I agree though, the masks the characters wore were somewhat frustrating but simultaneously compelling.
DeleteVeronica I can see your point about the character's bipolar attitudes. That definitely left me feeling uneasy at times, as there were moments where I couldn't quite grasp the true intentions of the characters. Then I realized that maybe that was the whole point. Yes there were alot of hidden motives and the characters were always changing the way they thought, however people are alot like that. We each have our own personalities, and those don't tend to change drastically throughout our lives, but our way of looking at people or situations is constantly changing. I do agree that maybe the play was a little overdone with the bipolar characters but that is just why it is called theater. After this occured to me I now have a much better appreciation of the play.
DeleteV- It's OK! I think you have a very valid point, and looking back at this switch, it does seem a bit over-exaggerated and excessive. I do see where you are coming from when you say that all the characters show that "bi-polar" trait. However, in my opinion this trait was what made the characters, their depth and the plot so intriguing. I think we can all agree that the characters had lots of depth to them and each character seems to have two sides to their personality, as Allison said about Hogan. I think what we are disagreeing on is how exactly this "two sided characterization" adds or detracts from the play itself. Personally, I think the twist in the characters feelings and emotions was sort of the climax of the story. Usually the climax twists the plot somehow, which, in my opinion, was exactly what the switches in the characters were. As I said before, i think it added to the play itself, but that it my totally one-sided, biased opinion that you are certainly welcome to disagree with!
ReplyDeleteNicole Howard
Daielle - To answer your question about their 'night of truth', (and I could be wrong about this so I apologize if I am) I think that it was to show that they were in love; they meant something more to each other than their one night stands in the past, and neither of them were really sure how to handle something more permanent. At least that's how it feels in my mind. It sort of shows just how fragile both of them are and how much they cared about each other, but, in a a way, they both knew that they wouldn't work in the long run, even though Hogan seemed to think that he could get them together.
ReplyDeleteIf anyone can explain this better or completely debunk what I've said, please do.
Veronica Spadaro
Veronica,
DeleteI think that their night of truth was for Jim, in my opinion, a way of clearing his conscience. Drowning himself in alcohol was a way for him to smother his emotions and the excessive guilt that he suffered, but Josie was able to serve as a way for him to ease the load that he was carrying on his shoulders emotionally,to make him feel like he wasn't alone in the world. For Josie I agree it was a way for her to finally and to the fullest extent express her love for him and try to give him the happiness she has always believed that she could give him. This night however she realizes there is no way she can completely eliminate the emotional burden he has to carry, and there's no way to escape from his guilt other than death. She, as you said, realized that their relationship could not work and he did as well. But I believe it was a little more complex than just leaving their night in the past and going their separate ways. The fact that Josie told Jim that she didn't remember the night of truth showed, to me anyway, that Josie was "releasing him" and that she came to the realization that death is the only way, or so she believes, that can stop the pain. It wasn't them going in separate directions so much as it was her using her "maternal kindness" to push him in what she believed was the right direction.
Sierra Jesanis
Hi everyone!
ReplyDeleteI actually really enjoyed this play and found a lot of insight into not only the plot line, but the characters as well. After reading the play, I discovered that both Josie and Jim had personas that they put on for the rest of the world which didn't accurately display who they truly were. For example, Josie came off as a tough, feminine power who never lacked wit and hostility, while Jim appeared to be a calm and collected, intellectual individual. It was that one night that the two spent together however, that began as a game but eventually turned into a revelation of truth. This night not only revealed their true selves, but also made Josie realize that a future with Jim would be impossible because he was already too far gone for help.
Something that surprised me about the ending however, was the peace that Josie felt after she knew that Jim had left for good. The only explanation that I could think of was that the night gave Josie all the satisfaction that she had ever wanted because she had found his love without using the trickery that she was used to using. Does anyone have any other ideas as to why Josie was so content with seeing Jim leave? Any response would be much appreciated.
Katie Gorsky
Katie- I have to disagree with you when you say that Josie had peace after Jim left for good. I just went back to that part and it seems quite painful for her to let him go. I think she may have seemed a little at peace because that is her personality, that nothing really phases her. However, Hogan says something offensive and she forcefully screams back "Don't Father! I love him!" Also, O'Neill writes things like "turns to him, forcing a teasing smile", "Forcing her usual reaction to his threats" and lastly "her face sad, tender and pitying..." She loved Jim, but she knew Jim wasn't happy, especially when he says he wants to die and things like that. I think it was very hard for her to let him go, but she knew she had to do it and she put on that suit of armor that builds her personality and tried to put her life back to normal again.
ReplyDeleteNicole Howard
I know this was a while back but I agree with Nicole as well. Honestly, I think they both should have fought harder for their love. I think that if one had fought the ending would have been much happier for them, but as Nicole said I don't think the parting was easy but rather forced and painful. When is a failed love relationship ever easy?
DeleteEujin Kim
Hey guys! Surprisingly, I really enjoyed reading this play!
ReplyDeleteI actually took a peek at the blog before I finished reading the play so through out the end of the play, I was trying to decide whether I would agree with Nicole or Veronica in regards to how I felt about the characters’ behaviors and traits. I’ve concluded that I agree with Nicole!
I personally never got the impression of the characters being two faced or anything of the sort. I just took note of how each of them, as Nicole pointed out earlier, had such great depth. I completely agree with you Nicole -whenever another “onion layer” was peeled back, we discovered a new aspect of one of the character’s life. For instance, Josie’s “I love you, I love you not” attitude was one of the first things that made us realize that she chooses her actions wisely to upkeep a certain reputation.
Something that I found interesting was, as Katie pointed out, how all of the main characters had a certain reputation built up for themselves; however, at the end of the play, we discovered that none of their reputations actually reflected the true characters. This being the most obvious example, Josie portrayed herself as being a tough girl who has very loose morals. Her views of drinking, her morality in the situation with Jim Tyrone, &, of course, the discovery of her virginity all indicates that she is a girl that actually did have strong morals. As for her tough attitude, it is obvious that she doesn’t have good self-esteem. In fact, I believe that she maintained the reputation that she did to hide her vulnerability. She doesn’t want to give everyone another reason, besides her physical appearance, to make fun of her. I don’t think Jim Tyrone necessarily tried to actually build up a reputation for himself on purpose. However, I do think while he was finding ways for coping with his mother’s death (like by hiring a prostitute), naturally, rumors spread and a reputation was built up for him. People thought of Jim as an alcoholic without a care in the world, but the ending of the play made it known that he certainly had something to care about: his mother’s forgiveness. Also, while Josie thought of Jim’s girls as “tarts”, he thought of them as “tarts”, showing that the one thing that was true of his reputation was the mere fact that he was a drunk.
To answer Katie’s question –I do think that Josie felt peace after Jim leaving. I agree with you Katie that part of the reason was because she finally got love without using any trickery. Someone finally loved Josie & this included loving her imperfections. It didn’t seem like any of the other men had actually loved her imperfections because Josie always seemed so insecure before talking with Jim. She would always go on about how she’s just a cow to her father. I also think that there was more behind why she felt peace at such a hard time. The night she shared with Jim was more than just about someone finally loving her for all that she is, her mask was finally taken off; Josie finally didn’t have to upkeep the reputation that she created for herself so long ago. Jim confronted Josie about her acts of pretending to not be a virgin. The two most important people of her life knew who she really was. She no longer had to pretend that she was “that girl” who she slept with every man in town. Josie and her father were finally on the same page: she was a virgin. Josie was at peace because she could be herself. There would no longer have to be all the lies with her own father.
-Aiyla Zahid
I think this is by far the most complex love story I've read in my entire life. Like other people said, each character was extremely complex, which made everything about the book extremely complex. I found it was crucial to understand the characters in order to understand the plot and the reasoning behind the characters' actions (like in any book I guess, but especially in this one). The self-hatred and self-disgust both Josie and Jim felt about themselves made it very difficult to form a meaningful and honest relationship between the both of them. Both felt unworthy of love, yet yearned for it at the same time causing each to endure a constant emotional turmoil; hence the constant advancing and retreating relationship portrayed during their night together. I think because they had a lack of love for themselves, it made them want each others love and acceptance in order to fill the void. I found that Jim and Hogan were similar in the sense that they both found in Josie what they had lost in another. Hogan lost his wife, and mentioned that Josie reminds him of her because of the way Josie puts him in his place and he is glad for that. Jim looks to Josie for the motherly love that he yearns for from his mother who died. He seeks forgiveness for his drinking, and Josie is as close as he can get to the motherly love he desperately needs. As strong and able as Josie portrays herself to be, she is really suffering from an extremely poor self-image (which of course is not helped by the constant insults she receives from Hogan, as you guys have mentioned) This is the reason, I believe, that Josie so desperately needs Jim's love and perhaps why she wants to "save" him. It is an action that would redeem Josie in a way, possibly she feels the need to return the love he has shown her? The most solid part of their relationship seems to be the fact that they understand each other because of their similar emotional circumstances. They provide for each other what they lack in themselves. The reliance that each of the characters in this play (Hogan, Jim, Josie) has on each other is one of the many things that makes this book/play so complex and unique.
ReplyDeleteMelissa, I actually had the opposite impression Josie's character. I think some of her "complexities" were fake. She tried too hard to keep up a certain persona which made her real character seem falsified and empty.
DeleteThe other characters were complex in their own confused ways but Josie mostly appeared to me as a simple farm girl looking to appear more exciting than she truly is.
Hello everybody! Overall, I liked this book, but it definitely left me with a bunch of questions and comments.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the background on Josie and Jim’s relationship? Josie’s heart was broken when Jim didn’t show up for their “moonlit date”, so she clearly felt strongly about him. I wonder how long she has known him, what types of conversations they had had, and how well they knew each other before the start of the play…
Is it coincidental that both Josie’s and Jim’s mothers died?
I think Melissa had a great point: “Both [Jim and Josie] felt unworthy of love, yet yearned for it at the same time causing each to endure a constant emotional turmoil; hence the constant advancing and retreating relationship portrayed during their night together.” I hadn’t realized while reading that the reason they displayed an “I love you, I love you not” relationship (as Aiyla said) was because they both felt unworthy of love, but the more I think about it, the more this makes sense in my mind. Both the characters felt they could not love each other because they felt they did not deserve any love. Josie believed she was too hideous to ever be loved by someone (Shrek, anyone?) and Jim thinks no one should ever love him after the shameful things he did in his past.
Although I agree with Nicole when she explained that she thought it was hard for Josie to let Jim go, I think because Josie knew on the inside that it was what was best for Jim, it truly was not hard for her in the end. As Aiyla said, Josie really does have good morals. Even though it may have been painful to allow Jim to go, she knew she had to let him “have [his] wish and die in [his] sleep soon” (149).
I personally didn’t like Hogan’s character at all. I agree with V in that the characters’ bipolar-ness was a bit over the top, and I think this is especially true with Hogan. I can’t even count the number of times Hogan calls Josie a lazy cow or a fool, and Josie is constantly yelling at her father, calling him an old loon or old tick. Then suddenly they’ll both love each other, like they do when they’re coming up with a scheme against Jim or at the end when they both love each other again. I understand that every family has its ups and downs, but it just bothered me how their attitudes changed so drastically so quickly. He also relied so heavily on Josie that it seemed she was his only reason to live. He even said at the end that he would “drown [himself] in Harder’s ice pond” if his daughter left him. He has to trust his daughter and let her leave if she wants to at some point; he can’t expect Josie to stay with him forever.
Genna- I think it's reasonable to assume that Josie and Jim both having dead mothers is important to the story. If you'll allow me to lean heavily on overused cliches and far reaching assumptions for a moment, mothers tend to represent love in almost every story they appear in, and the complete absence of love many of the characters in Misbegotten have for each other and themselves is crucial to the story and perhaps heavily connected to a lack of mother figure in their lives. Both Josie and Jim believe themselves unworthy of love and sabotage their own hopes at happiness because of it- Jim indulges in meaningless one night stands and drink, Josie can barely have a conversation without reminding everyone what an ugly brute she thinks she is, and they both show signs of terror and disbelief at the thought of an actual, loving relationship.
DeleteJim is more blunt about how strongly he was affected by the death of his mother, but I believe that Josie suffered just as badly from her own mother's death, as Hogan only encourages her to belittle herself. Neither Hogan nor Jim's father seem suited to fill the gap their wives left behind, and the lack of a loving parental figure makes it that much harder for Jim and Josie to love themselves.
...I have descended to the level of Freudian psychology. I am ashamed.
Sarah Torrey
I didn't think of it like that but reading what you said Sarah it makes sense. The lack of a maternal figure and a father who did not compensate for that missing piece seems like a logical view on the great desire for love from both Jim and Josie. I completely agree with you!
DeleteMadison Florence
Upon finishing A Moon for the Misbegotten, I really liked one certain part of the play, and that was the back-and-forth between Harder and Hogan when Harder comes over to talk about the value of the land. As a movie buff (as most of you know), I found this to be very engaging due to the highs and lows of the conversation, how it can be very calm one moment and very intense the next. I can say that I enjoyed this more than most of the books we've read in the past, but that's because I find dramas much more investing than an ordinary novel.
ReplyDeleteOne question though:
If Jim was drunk when he said he was going to sell the farm to Harder, why did Hogan take it so far as to plot to essentially destroy Jim? Also, why would Jim jeopardize his chance with Josie by selling the only thing her family owns? I don't know if it's just because I like to nitpick, but this seems a bit extreme to me.
Andy Lenoce
They talk later in the play about how Hogan knew that Jim was only kidding about selling the farm, but he told Josie that Jim was selling as a part of his plan to get Josie and Jim together at last. Jim never had any intention of selling the farm, and Hogan knew that all along.
DeleteI agree that the dialogue between Harder and Hogan was very engaging. It was my favorite scene of the play because it was intense and exciting and it seemed like both the characters had a clever and witty response to use for whatever the other character had said.
DeleteDallon Asnes
Surprisingly, I really enjoyed A Moon for the Misbegotten. I found all of the complex conflicts to be intriguing. I agree with what some of you are saying in that Hogan's mood swings did get a bit extreme at some points- but I think that added to the overall story line. Hogan's outbursts were almost unpredictable because of how random they were. It made him an unpredictable character which added a hint of suspense to the play. It was the same type of situation with Josie. At some points she would be extremely harsh, but then would quickly change to almost a motherly tone. Whether it was with Hogan or with Jim, you never really knew what she was going to say. Contradictory to what some of you are saying about the bipolar attitudes, I feel that they made a large contribution to the story. Without them it would just be boring dialogue.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading A Moon for the Misbegotten I also found the play to be captivating due to the relationships and conflicts between the Hogan's. Josie and Phil Hogan did not seem to have the typical "father daughter" relationship due to the fact that they would most always be insluting and calling eachother harsh names, however I believe this made the play even more "eye-grabbing." I agree when many of you had said that Phil Hogan had the "redeeming trait" for his daughter Josie. This is shown towards the end of the play when Josie tells Hogan that she will be leaving her father like her brothers have in the past. O'Neil states "He looks miserable, starts to speak, thinks better of it, and meekly tiptoes past her up the steps and goes in, closing the door quietly after him." I believe that although Hogan does insult Josie, he does truly love her all along. However, I think that these insults do play a role in Josie's behavior. She believes herself to be "a big, rough, ugly cow of a woman," which seems to be effecting her self esteem and self confidence. I also agree with Katie when she states that the bipolar dialogue made a huge contributing factor to the story line because the reader never knew what to expect and how the characters would act towards eachother. For example, towards the end of the play, Josie and Hogan were having a serious conversation about saving the relationship between Jim Tyrone and Josie, but not even a page later Josie and Hogan begin insulting eachother again.
ReplyDeleteKirsten Shea
I actually enjoyed reading A Moon for the Misbegotten. When I finished reading however I was in the same position as Danielle. I felt like it was left very open to interpretation. The fact that now Jim had shared his deepest sorrows with Josie and then up and left seemed so disappointing, for lack of a better word. Also, the relationships in this story seemed almost stereotypical. You have the father-daughter relationship where they tease each other mercilessly. They act so cruel to each other, but then you see in the end that Hogan really has Josie's feelings in mind. And then there's Josie and Jim Tyrone who love each other but aren't meant to be. It's that secret high school crush that,when it comes to light, doesn't work out.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with Veronica as well when she said that the characters were bipolar, but then I agree with Nicole in saying that it's what gave personality and depth to the characters. You got to see how Josie reacted when her emotions were threatened. You got to see how Jim Tyrone let his guard down when he was intoxicated. It gave a more human feel to the characters.
My impression of this play was that it was very true to life. All of the characters were very realistic, because they were all very multi dimensional with pretenses that they hid behind so as not to expose their vulnerabilities. Hogan acted tough and uncaring but he really wanted what was best for his daughter, and even his sons, Josie hid behind her role of the slut because she felt that no man could ever really love her due to her appearance, and Jim portrayed himself as having a wonderful, glamorous life, when really he was ashamed of himself. I also felt that Jim and Josie's relationship was very realistic because they connected briefly and then separated, which is how real relationships generally go. I thought the play was really funny as well, with lots of little puns between Josie and her father.
ReplyDeleteI also wanted to ask if anybody else felt that Jim was using Josie to replace his mother. I think there was a pretty serious Oedipus complex going on in that relationship
ReplyDeleteI feel that Jim was definitely missing something from his mother ,so I would agree with that opinion.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI was thinking the same thing. O'Neill probably wanted us to pick up on this based on his repeated use of the world "maternal" to describe Josie's actions towards Jim.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI can't understand why he made the relationship have this dynamic. To me, it made the romance seem less authentic and more one sided. Josie loved Jim romantically, but he loved her more as a motherly figure
DeleteHayley- personally I think that the romance in this play is supposed to be fake. Like you said, Jim sees Josie as a motherly figure but I also got the impression that he only wanted her to be what he saw her as, just kind and good, especially through how he completely disapproved of what he perceived as her vulgar language and actions.
DeleteOverall, I really enjoyed this play. I certainly agree with what everyone seems to be saying about the characters. I though the were all very multi dimensional and I think that's what made this such an interesting play to read. You never really knew what was going to happen next, especially with Jim and Hogan, being that they were drunk most of the time. For example, when Jim and Josie were sitting on the steps and decided to go into her room, Jim tries to rape Josie. I did not expect that at all and it caught me off guard, however Jim only did this because he was drunk. I felt that alot of what Jim and Hogan did was only done partly because they were drunk and had lost self control. I also agree with what Nicole said about the bipolar attituds of the characters giving more personality and depth to the characters. It left you guessing how certain characters were going to react to certain situations, and I really enjoyed that suspense.
ReplyDeleteI also think that Haley makes a good point about the Oedipus complex going on between Jim and Josie. I think that at least part of the reason Jim loved Josie was because she reminded him of his mother
Kristen Machuga
Ashley-
ReplyDeleteI have to disagree with you on one point in your post. You said that Josie and Hogan's relationship is almost stereotypical, but I'm having trouble understanding why you think so. When I think of a stereotypical father-daughter relationship, I think of the protective dad who wants to keep his little girl safe. In this play however, Hogan is almost abusive to Josie and is constantly trying to get her together with Jim, which is very different from what I think of a father-daughter relationship.
On the other side, I do agree with you when you said that Jim and Josie's relationship was stereotypical. That is much more clear to me.
Katie Gorsky
Katie- I think that Ashley is saying that at the root of Hogan's gruffness with Josie is actually a very loving relationship. He wants her to be with Jim because he knows they love each other, and he abuses Josie in a playful way, because he knows that she can take it and that she is the only one who can abuse him in return.
DeleteHi everyone!
ReplyDeleteI started to read the comments and had so many reactions to what everyone was saying that I decided I would just post my original thoughts then later go back and add comments to all of your posts later on.
As I read A Moon for the Misbegotten I thought it was easily read because the characters had to speak out loud to share their thoughts and feelings with the audience. Despite my ease in understanding what the author was directly giving us in such a simple way there was truly a lot going on below the surface.
Each character seems to have this image of themselves that everyone sees. They all show a very straightforward picture of themselves, Josie being strong and able from the moment we first meet her, Hogan a man who does not dilute anything he says and is abusive with his words, and Jim is almost a showoff as well as a drunk.
The more we learn about the characters you find that they all have underlying thoughts, feelings, and plots. Josie, under all her almost masculine characteristics and her reputation that she not only seems to accept but flaunts, she is like most other girls and wants someone (Jim) to love her and accept who she truly is. She tries to maintain her appearance of being a strong, tough woman around Jim but she really just seems to want him to hold her hand and treat her sweetly unlike anyone else ever has.
Jim behaves as he does because of his past. He drinks because it hides what is really going on in his head. He seems to think that his mother died because she woke up from her coma and chose to close her eyes again because she didn't want to see him drunk. As he goes on talking about the blonde on the train and how he did not know what he was doing but then saying he did you can see the enormous amount of guilt that he still has not figured out or accepted.
Hogan appears to be the greedy and almost cruel father when he comes up with lies about how Jim agreed to sell the farm. In almost a twisted way he did all of this so Josie could be with the man she loved. Despite his teasing her he really just wanted his daughter to be happy and saw that night as the last chance.
What I found interesting at the end was that the love Josie and Jim had experienced their whole life was not real to them. Jim insisted that Josie was a virgin and that it was all a lie. I think that he said that because whatever she had done in the past was not actual love for her. I believe that he considers to be pure because she has not loved or been loved in a real sense before. Josie sees Jim and all of the ladies he has pursued as she does his drinking, a way to hide his emotions. Although they only sat together through the night the author seems to portray this as love. He makes love not an action but an emotion that they felt that one night and are satisfied with even though it will never happen again.
Sorry for writing so much. I had a lot to share!
I don't know about anyone else, but I found it a bit strange that so much could happen in one single afternoon/night. Like Genna said, I'm curious about Josie and Jim's relationship before that day. They must've already built up some trust in each other before confessing their inner most feelings and love for one another, or it could've just been the alcohol. I wasn't very fond of Jim, though he was a very complex and disheartening character as many of you have said. He drinks his days away, but makes no notion to change, I guess because he is too deeply hurt.
ReplyDeleteI feel that Josie hides behind the confident image she projects, and she really has no sense of self worth. She helps all of her brothers escape the wrath of her father, but would never do so for herself. On many occasions, she ends up "on the verge of humiliated tears" though she tends to laugh it off with others. The only person who seems to see her suffering is her father, and he ignores it to save her the embarrassment.
I would have to agree with Andy when I say my favorite part of the play is when Josie and Hogan torment Harder. I thought it really showed the cleverness of both characters, and their ability to work together as a faithful team.
This was not one of the best plays I have ever read, but I don't mind if you disagree. I just don't feel like much has changed by the end, as Josie and Hogan are back to their usual banter, working on the farm. Sure, we find out about Jim's inner turmoil with himself, but he hasn't changed.
Kelsey Riesbeck
Dearest Kelsey,
DeleteI too am curious about Jim and Josie's relationship prior to the play, but I believe we can all agree on some things. I believe that Josie and Jim have likely been flirting for years. The play says Jim frequented the farm and the dad already had a teasing suspicion Josie loved Jim. I believe because Hogan is such a drunk, we look past what he says but if you think about it I believe he is hinting that it's obvious they've liked each other for quite a long time.
Katie- When Hogan basically set Josie up with Jim that night he knew that Josie was strong enough to deal with whatever happened wih Jim. That's the lady she was raised to be. A part of being a parent is also letting your child go in hopes that they'll be okay in the world and I feel like we got to see that step in their relationship. It might seem crazy but that's how I see the father-daughter relationship.
ReplyDeleteIn the case of the relentless banter, I understand how it seems almost cruel but it their relationship. It how they show they care for each other. In the end when Hogan sees how upset Josie is, he brings their teasing back into the conversation and that's how Josie knows that things will be okay.
Kelsey- I do have to agree that not much seemed to change by the end of the play. The only thing you could really see as a change was Josie coming to the realization that she is capable of being loved. However she goes right back to the life she was living previously. She even disregards her earlier decision of leaving her father.
I have to agree with Katie about the relationship between Hogan and Josie. I do not see it to be stereotypical at all, because of the abuse factor and the fact that Hogan is often drunk. This certainly makes the relationship nontypical. I agree also that Hogan is not very protective over Josie, especially with men, as most fathers usually are. He encourages her to seduce Jim, and even though his intentions are good, I don't see this as something a typical father would do. That's just how I see the relationship
ReplyDeleteKristen Machuga
I completely agree with Kristen on Phil and Josie's relationship. There is absolutely nothing normal or stereotypical about them. The way he is so emotionally abusive toward Josie is not right. However you cant really tell that Hogan cares at points. There is no excuse for his behavior toward Josie but there is still a bit of fatherly instinct and heart in him.
DeleteHaley- I think that Jim could very well have had a relationship with his mother. I also think that maybe his relationship with her was that of a close mother and son so that losing her was like losing the one person in the world who loved him (maternally not sexually). His love for Josie could have been a way to replace his mother or he discovered the same type of genuine love his mother had given him. I suppose that it could go either towards the Oedipus complex or just desire for a caring person depending on who is looking at it and how.
ReplyDeleteMadison Florence
For once, I actually enjoyed a summer reading assignment! I thought that A Moon for the Misbegotten was very entertaining and intriguing. I read it cover to cover on a plane ride back from Aruba earlier this summer. I picked it up initially just to speed up time on a long flight; however the complexity of the characters and plot hooked me very quickly. After reading through many of the comments, I was surprised to find that many people did not like Hogan's character or his relationship with Josie. Personally, I thought Hogan's character was the best part of the play. I loved the snappy and harsh exchanges between him and Josie. I felt that although they called each other nasty names, the loving bond that they shared was extremely strong. Their relationship seemed like a stereotypical father daughter relationship as many of you said, but it was definitely overdramatized to make it a big focus of the play. I never viewed Hogan as verbally abusive, because Josie could definitely hold her own against him as well as dish out some brutal insults herself. I also thought Hogan’s elaborate scheme to bring Josie and Jim together seemed fitting and necessary given the circumstances. I was very satisfied with the ending, because I believed that Josie knew she had done what she could for Jim and she realized that although she saved his soul it wasn’t going to be enough to save his life. Overall I thoroughly enjoyed the book. However after finishing the book, one thing did not quite make sense to me:
ReplyDeleteWhy was the blonde prostitute on the train so much more important than all the other “pretty little tarts” from Broadway that Jim was with? Why did she make Jim feel so ashamed and guilty? I do have some general ideas/answers, but if anyone else has an opinion I’d love to know someone else’s opinions on the matter.
Emily Kopsick
Emily- I think that the blonde prostitute made Jim so guilty feeling because he was trying to forget that he was riding the train to take his mothers body to be buried. She was only more important because he repeatedly used her to try an forget about his mother. The attempt to forget her as well as the means in which he attempted to forget her most likely made him feel ashamed because he had loved her but now it did not visibly appear he did.
DeleteNot sure if that's what you got from it but that was my look at it.
Madison Florence
Hey Everyone!
ReplyDeleteI hope everyone had a splendid summer. Well after reading all of your well thought out opinions, I'd like to express mine. Personally Miss Kopsick I don't know how you could like Hogan. I know he has some witty banter, but he is beyond ignorant and disrespectful. He is in a permanent downward spiral ever since his wife died giving birth to their final child, Mike. For that Era, childbirth deaths were pretty common and it was actually quite common for the father's to remarry. Instead of being a drunken fool who can't let go of the past: who punishes himself, his children, and generally everyone else, he should be a mature man and move on with his life for his children's sake. He has a permanent grudge on Mike "for murdering his wife" even though its an uncontrollable outcome. When his kids turned to God for solace, he taunted them. I don't believe it was a coincidence that the three sons, who weren't heavy drinkers, found God and happiness. While the heavy drinking, non religious man is in deep depression( I know it doesn't state that in the book, but come on it is obvious). I can not tolerate people who are supposed to be role models for their children that are selfish bums. Hogan doesn't care about anyone, but himself throughout the story. I actually do believe that he wasn't trying "be cupid" and that he was just trying to save face. I honestly think he wanted to take advantage of someone(his daughter) being in love so he could make money. He hasn't loved anyone since his wife died and even though most respectable men would just pour all their love into their children, he did not. If I am ever half as bad of a father or general human being he is, I won't be able to look myself in the mirror.
Hi Everyone!
ReplyDeleteI really enjoyed reading this play. I personally find plays easier to get into. I’d have to agree with just about everyone that the love story is just so complex and deep. While reading the part where Jim is telling Josie about his mother I just kept thinking about hearing people say you fall in love with people who have similar characteristics of your parents. Jim was drawn toward Josie in that she was strong and ready to care about him and keep him comforted in a time where he needed her. (This is where I can see what Haley was saying about the Oedipus complex, and I would have to agree that was one of the first things that went through my mind as reading.) Josie on the other hand I personally believe was drawn to Jim for his complexities and charm. This façade Josie has put on causes people to be crasser toward her. Her father for example is so verbally and mentally hard on her she isn’t used to hearing positive things. When Jim compliments her it breaks through the wall a little bit and causes her to love him so much. I believe Josie lies to feel strong so she doesn’t need to depend on anyone or anything. Jim and Phil each depend on their alcohol while Josie has proven that her way of coping, by lying, lets her to only depend on herself for fear of being hurt. Overall I enjoyed reading about a not so average love story. There were definitely parts where I wish Jim would have just said what he wanted to say rather than just scoot around the truth. I also found it a bit unresolved toward the end but I was not disappointed. I think because the love story wasn’t so “picture perfect” it made it more relatable which I liked.
Genevieve Wolfe
Overall, this play was one that I did enjoy, even though it was quite confusing at points. When I read the fist few pages, as Josie was helping Mike run away from his father, I thought that was setting the stage for Hogan to be a huge bullying character, a terrible father. Later I learned however, that Hogan was just trying to keep life going, and Mike was too lazy and/or weak to help. Josie took pity on him and so helped him escape his father's wrath. However, by the end, we see what kind of relationship Josie has with her father, and how they may threaten each other, but they still love each other in their own way. When Jim is introduced, it is clear that Josie likes him, but she is so critical of herself. This causes her to just tell herself she isn't good enough for him, and he would never be interested in someone as low as her, calling herself a whore many times. Jim clearly either sees past her faults, or just doesn't believe they could be there. But Josie simply can't accept that he would believe that. That is, until the near end of the play, when Jim shows up again at the house, and they enjoy the night together, even though there are still troubles. Josie protects Jim from himself, when he starts ranting about the blonde on the train. I thought this was the ultimate kindness, and when in the morning, he asks her what happened last night, she doesn't embarrass him. It is in this way that they find solace in each other. Like others have said, they have an imperfect love, but it seems to work for them, even though they have difficulties. So as I said before, I did enjoy this play, for all its complexities,emotions, and disasters.
ReplyDeleteGreg Wooding
After seeing a number of my classmates mention that they thought the Oedipus Complex took place in this play, I went and reread the play to if there was the hard evidence to back up this suggestion. Clearly, the relationship between Josie and Hogan is unusual. Do I think it's on the level as Oedipus and his mother? No. I believe both are dying for love, but are too stubborn to admit to it. To cope with the internal pain each one feels, they act compulsively. Hogan gets belligerently drunk at the Inn, and takes out all his anger on the world. While Josie hops from guy to guy hoping shell eventually get lucky.
ReplyDeleteI don't believe they have "feelings" for each other, but their stubbornness won't allow them to come to terms with themselves that they are lonely. Therefore, they only have each other to seek out for companionship because they burned bridges with practically everyone else.
Tyson Bridge
P.S I didn't mean to make my name be "T Money" it was an accident, I am not in 5th Grade
I completely agree with you. I do not see any level of the Oedipus complex here. In the play I never got the feeling of Josie loving Hogan or the other way around. Both characters were obviously in poor mental states and used one another for relief or some kind of moral support. Josie had love for Jim and loved her father in a very different way. Josie and Hogans relationship was, in my opinion, was purely family love. Nothing more than that.
DeleteI don't believe the Oedipus complex takes place between Hogan and Josie, she simply looks up to him. However, I do think there is an unusual maternal aspect to Josie's relationship with Jim. He seems to be attracted to this as a way to replace his mother.
DeleteI don't think that there is any Oedipus complex here. Even though Jim wants Josie to act like his mother, he doesn't try to be with her in the way that would make it an Oedipus complex.
DeleteDallon Asnes
At the beginning of this play I thought it was going to be a lot more focused on the relationship between Josie and Phil. We start off witnessing one of her many battles against her father by assisting her brother to run away. The reader can't ignore the obvious poor treatment Josie receives from her family, especially her father. Then to top it off it is revealed that she lost her mother at a young age and has no female role model. This leads Josie to live a life of masculine intentions such as proving herself to her father and having a certain reputation around town. Although the play of course ends up being mainly about Jim and Josie, there are still some interesting pieces of the father/daughter relationship that factor into Josie's actions. Many of her decisions are influenced by the need to please her father. She won't even admit to loving Jim because she thinks it makes her appear weak. It would be interesting to see how Hogan and Josie's relationship changes after the end of the play.
ReplyDeleteWhile I wasn't exactly the biggest fan of a few of the characters, mainly Phil Hogan, I found that I actually enjoyed the play. It was never slow reading and always held your attention. What I'm curious about though, is what exactly was Phil's true motive? He claims that everything he did was all in the best interest of his daughter and getting her together with her true love, but all other words and actions we see from him tell us otherwise. He constantly insults Josie, over anything from her appearance to the sometimes vulgar way in which she acts, so why lie and scheme, and claim it was in the best interest of his daughter? We know that his "redeeming trait" is his love for his daughter, and I have no doubt that he does, I'm just not sure we know everything that was going on inside Phil Hogan's head on the night Josie spent with Tyrone.
ReplyDeleteHey Sarah,
DeleteI think that Phil and Josie's relationship has a lot to do with dominance. I like to think Josie is truly the head of the household and its not her greater physical strength but the fact that she is truly a good person that gives her this position. Phil is selfish but has watched Josie be selfless giving her brothers a chance at life, even though they show little gratitude, while she makes great sacrifices staying behind. I think we see a big change in Phil as he becomes more like Josie acting not for personal gain but to make a family member happy. Perhaps his love for his daughter isn't his redeeming quality but his admiration for her, he is now able to see Josie's true beauty, her inner beauty.
-Elise Phelan
I really enjoyed reading this play. It was quick and easy to read but also exciting and interesting because of the intriguing relationships between all of the characters. One thing that stood out to me in this play was that there were very few characters compared to some of the other plays that I have read. I feel like this smaller number of characters let me understand each individual better, which helped me to understand the wit and the personalities. I feel like I wouldn't have found so many of Josie's comments so interesting and clever if I had had to keep track of forty different characters.
ReplyDeleteEven though didn't exactly show it, he was looking out for Josie's best interests and trying to help her find love. If this was his way of showing how he cared, did the three brothers who had already left the farm miss out on Hogan's affection because they didn't realize that it actually was affection?
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteIn my last paragraph, I mean that Hogan was looking out for Josie even though he didn't show it.
DeleteDallon Asnes
I agree about the whole characters thing. Although this play was short you really got a feel for the characters in the story because there were so few. I remember reading Antigone in 10th grade and being completely overwhelmed by the amount of characters. By only having a few characters in this play it was really easy to understand the characters.
DeleteOne concern I have with A Moon for the Misbegotten is why Eugene O’Neill wrote it as a play. I question this aspect of the work because the story lacks completely in a change of scenery, everything taking place on the Hogan’s farm in front of the house. When I think of watching a play I think of lights dimming and the stage transforming, adapting from scene to scene. In a performance of this play I feel the stage crew would have it very easy. I think of a Shakespearean tragedy and all the physical conflict the sword fights, the stabbings, and suicides. No doubt there is conflict in A Moon for the Misbegotten but these are emotional predicaments, climaxes being reached by self-realizations. I feel this story is more appealing to the heart and mind then to the eyes. I always prefer plays over novels because in novels you can read entire chapters of descriptions of characters and setting before anyone says or does anything. Plays give just the necessary facts and then leap right into the action. However in this play there is so many emotions involved i miss the sometimes tedious description. The readers are unable to know the true characters of this play, until perhaps the very end, because they are constantly twisting themselves into who they wish to portray to each other. I felt confused and as deceived as Josie seemed to be in her love for Jim and her respect for her father. Constantly the characters went back and forth on their true intentions and I found this perplexing and difficult to follow. To get more meaning from this story I felt I needed that look into the past or into the minds of the characters that can’t be exposed through just dialogue.
ReplyDelete-Elise Phelan
I was thinking the same thing about why A Moon for the Misbegotten was written as a play. The scenery and setting never really changed and there were very few things that would really need to be acted out. It's not something I would expect from a play. It seems like it may have been better as a short story.
Delete-Kaitlyn Bristol
I think that this story had to be written as a play because of the amount of dialogue involved. Last year in English we read a short story that had a large amount of dialogue and everyone was a bit irritated that the author did not include a label on the statements to show who said what. With this story, I feel that to write the dialogue out would look like this:
Delete"..." said Josie.
Jim responded, "..."
Josie yelled "..."
"..." yelled Jim
which is so similar to the format of a play where it is:
Josie: "..."
Jim: "..."
Josie: "..."
Jim: "..."
Personally I'd rather just see the dialogue written in the play form especially when there is so much conversation in the story. It seems a bit tedious to read the name and tone of voice over and over again when you could just read the name of the character.
Madison Florence
I think what Maddy said is completely on point. When I first read the play I wondered the same thing. It's not enough of a plot to be an interesting play like many Shakespearean plays or enough plot to be a novel. The only reason I can think of would be the same as Maddy's there's just so much conversation between the characters that for the reader's sake this story is in the form of a play.
DeleteEujin Kim
I know you've been waiting all summer for what MagicMike has to think about this steamy, sexy, Connecticut based play. Well your time has come. I finished this play today, and have to say Mr. Mac I would have given it a standing ovation also. This play provided a strong sense of relief after reading non- fiction psychology books for 2 weeks, and I have to say I enjoyed this play so much I actually read the whole thing beginning to end all at once, without putting it down! (That was probably aided by the fact I was in the car for 4 hours and its pretty short)
ReplyDeleteThis is why I loved the play.
First off, not gonna lie we're all teenagers here and a book with any sort of love/romance is going to appeal to us. If you deny this, your a liar. I loved how Jim and Josie have such a passion for each other that the reader can presume throughout the whole play. Then, finally, at the end our suspicions are confirmed when it turns out they truly love each other! One character I didn't like in the play was Hogan. Pardon my French, but he completely screws his whole family over. It's clear he is not a great dad when his first two sons leave, which poses a question that's been nagging me, What trait in Josie makes her want to stay with Hogan? He's a drunk, abusive, and downright rotten. One final thing I would like to say is at the end of the play I still felt bad for Hogan, did anyone else experience this?
Yours Truly,
America
First off, I just want to say Mike you never cease to creep me out.
ReplyDeleteGood news though Mike! I got an answer to why Josie never left Hogan. It wasn't necessarily one individual trait though. What I have noticed from real life, criminal minds, and jersey shore is that girls for Long Island are trashy and that certain girls in some sort of sadistic way like the sickening treatment they receive. At some point in their youth someone, society, or themselves made them seem worthless. That feeling never left them and they had grown "used" to that feeling. When someone shows them common chivalry they are actually thrown off by it and made uncomfortable. The only way for them to feel "normal" is for them to go back to the abusive boyfriend/father. It's tragic but sadly the truth.
Also, I could be completely wrong, which is why I don't get(understand) woman.
Tyson Bridge
I agree! I don't, personally, think that leave a situation like that would be peaceful but I can see how Josie finding a person who cares about her would make her feel peaceful and accepting of having to let him go.
ReplyDeleteMadison Florence
Mike and Tyson- I have to agree with Tyson on this. Girls to tend to stick it out in situations that cause them to be abused/receive poor treatment. For Josie I think that it's not that she liked the treatment she received but rather she had no one else to turn to. Hogan was her father and without a mother she probably wanted that connection family has. As for the common chivalry that you mentioned Tyson, I think that girls are not necessarily made uncomfortable by it just that they feel they don't deserve it. Josie spent her whole life feeling that the only way to be cared about was for men to want her for what she can offer them rather than love her for who she is. When she spent that night with Jim she got to see what love was. The reason I think she stayed with Hogan after that was due to her commitment to family. Her brothers were not like her so they didn't fit into her little world so she let them go. She can handle her father as we see in the beginning of the play so she is capable of staying there.
ReplyDeleteMadison Florence
I think Josie also felt bad for Hogan. She sort of took over her mother's role in the family, and was the only one who could actually control him. Yes, her self worth wasn't the greatest, but she has enough respect to stand up for herself with him. Hogan isn't the only one chanting insults; Josie comes back pretty strong most of the time. But, like Maddie said, I think she has nowhere else to go and that is what ultimately makes her stay.
DeleteKelsey Riesbeck
Also, Josie spent her life being called big and manly, lacking the feminine compliments and atmosphere that most females need. Hogan is off putting to someone who isn't used to be treated so poorly. Josie most likely sees him as every other male in her life.
DeleteAllison Nadeau
I completely agree with Maddie and Kelsey. I don't necessarily believe we need to generalize women and their "tragic" decisions. Abuse is a horrible and tragic thing, that no one should have to endure. Women, or men, because men are also victims of abuse, do not choose to stay with an abuser because it makes them feel "normal". Most likely it is because they are afraid. Now that that has been cleared up, I just wanted to say that it is almost admirable that Josie sticks it out with her father. He is family, and the only family she has left, and vice versa. She does not tolerate his rude behavior, and stands up for herself regularly. I believe this makes Josie a strong and admirable character. She does not want to abandon her father as the rest of her family does, so instead she stays. As Kelsey said, her self-respect is admirable.
DeleteHey! I hope all of you had a wonderful summer, To start off this book was a really easy read so I was really happy because I read this book in a solid hour. But the theme of weak men frustrated me to no ends, and the fact that Josie and Jim didn't get together in the end just made me face-palm myself.
ReplyDeleteI don't think the characters were as complex as everyone said. The characters pretty much stayed the same the entire play, which makes sense because how much can a person change throughout like three days. Jim might have felt more resolved and less guilty about his past but I don't think one night of drinking, crying, and sleeping on a girl's breast made him any stronger of a person. I don't think it made him forgive himself of what he did in his past either. Josie didn't change as well, after they say goodbye she still ends up the town "slut" with a very manly personality. Hogan is still a greedy, and drunk father with just a guilty mindset because of what he did to Josie. I think complexity in characters are when they have multiple traits, depth in their personality,multiple dilemmas,and they change throughout the plot. Each character in this play only has one problem that end up never being fully resolved.
I had a problem with every character in this play as well, I don't like how Josie decides to spread rumors about herself and become a slut. The father is a drunk and Jim wasn't strong enough to be in a relationship with the one girl he really loves.
In the end, I think this book was intriguing and the author did a nice job capturing the reader but I have to say I did not like this play.
Eujin Kim
Eujin,
DeleteI see what you're saying about the characters not actually changing that much. Maybe the author just reveals a different side of them to us? Hope this makes sense!
Going off of everyone discussing the aspects of Hogan and Josie's relationship, I think that it is, at the very least, far from stereotypical. Yet at the same time, I definitely perceive what interaction we see as having somewhat of a protective tone. Though various abuse is exchanged between the two, there is a level of understanding and care as well. This was particularly clear to me at the end of the play, when Hogan tells Josie not to be bitter at him for scheming over Jim. He intentions appear honorable, if misguided, and are rooted in a wish to see his daughter happy. Some might say that happiness could not be found with Jim and his various troubles, but Hogan seems to have honestly believed that both his daughter and Jim deserve the best, which is why he intended to bring them together. That instinct to see the younger characters satisfied by any measure is a very protective tendency, in my opinion. These fundamental and traditional undertones mixed with the grating tension on a surface level made their relationship particularly interesting to me.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that Hogan, although appearing unloving and cynical, has a good place in his heart for both Josie and Jim. I think that Jim could certainly find happiness, as he indeed found in for a moment with Josie. In my opinion, he should have stayed with her. He would have been much happier there than with the whores on Broadway, but I guess that's what makes a good ending for this play.
DeleteI'm not sure If I am the only one, but i found this play EXTREMELY frustrating. Throughout the whole thing I found myself questioning all of the characters and their motives (as I saw many of you did too). I feel as though I would have enjoyed it more if it were actually a play going on in front of me, but then again that is the point of a play. I understand the ending although I absolutely hated it. Josie and Jim's relationship was never meant to be, even though they both served a specific purpose for one another. I saw that Mr. Mac said something about Romeo and Juliet in the introduction of this blog, and while reading I thought about how similar these two stories are. Though I agree Romeo and Juliet is definitely a little less complicated.
ReplyDeleteAnother point I'd like to hit, Hogan and Josie's relationship was one that made me extremely angry. I honestly felt bad for Josie the majority of the play and wished that she would just leave. I understand after the ending what Hogan did may have been out of love, but I still feel as though his greed may have outweighed the love for his daughter.
A Moon for the Misbegotten was an alright read, but I couldn't for the life of me get into it. I agree that it might have been better written in a different format than a play, but that's doubtful. I thought it was a shoddy plot and dialogue that never amounted to much during its hundred page run.
ReplyDeleteI can see why some may be attracted to it because of the progression of the characters motives and the awareness (or lack of) of what is exactly happening plot wise, but it just wasn't for me.
I've never been a big fan of plays. I'm more attracted to the imagery, diction, and the concept or notion behind of piece of literature, not to say this play didn't have some of that, just not what I tend to lean towards.
But, hey, whatever spanks you right is fine with me.
After reading the play over a month ago, but procrastinating on this part, I have to say what sticks with me the most is that I didn't enjoy the story mostly because I found the characters to be of a questionable moral standing. Both Josie and Jim seemed like they were supposed to be either the protagonist or a sympathetic character, yet, when I began to reflect on why I didn't feel invested in their relationship, I realized neither of them do anything that's particularly admirable throughout the entire play. In fact, all we know about them as people are the rumors we hear thrown around throughout the story, and those obviously don't paint a flattering picture of them as people. Really the only good thing to be said about either is their willingness to love each other, but I'm not even sure if this is something that is good when all each of them did throughout the story was drink and lie.
ReplyDeleteJack, I think you're right. Now that you mention it, I don't think these characters can be seen as sympathetic because, like you said, all they did throughout the story was drink and lie.
DeleteDallon Asnes
I completely agree with you on your point of view. Although we don't know much about Josie due to all the rumors through out the book, there is something to be admired in Josie. Josie does help her three brothers escape from her father's grasps, which showed that she truly loved her brothers as to let them live their lives while she stays behind to care for her father.
DeleteI actually finished this book a while ago, and it was helpful to read everyone's posts to refresh my memory. I really like Hogan and Josie's relationship. Although they are awfully rude to each other at times, it is very clear that they still love each other. Josie is the last of her siblings that hasn't run away, and I think Hogan feels a sense of security in her. Although I think Hogan, or Josie, at one point when they were fighting, mentions the idea of Josie leaving, but I think they both know she could never leave; she would never leave him on the farm alone, and he would lose the farm without her, eventually. Another thing I liked was Josie's promiscuity. She claims to have slept with every man in town, saying that this is almost her identifying quality among the people in town. But then why is Jim convinced she is an angelic virgin? At the end, Josie even gives up the act and takes on that role as a virgin, but I am left confused as to which is her true identity: whore or virgin? I'd like to believe she really wasn't as "easy" as she claims.
ReplyDeleteIt is from my understanding that Josie actually was a virgin. I think Jim was the only one that could see that in her, because he loved her for her "beautiful soul." He knows how whores really act, as he has slept with many like the "blond pig on the train," and he doesn't see that in Josie. I believe she put on that act to hide her sensitive emotions and desires as a woman. On page 115, I think she speaks the truth when she admits to being a virgin. She had enough confidence to say she slept with all the men in the town, but not enough to actually do it.
ReplyDeleteKelsey Riesbeck
Like most people I actually enjoyed A Moon for the Misbegotten. It was interesting to see the times in the play when O’Neill showed vulnerability in these very rugged characters. The characters come off as almost indestructible in the beginning with their very dynamic and tough personalities, but by the end of the play you watch them unravel and see the most exposed and defenseless parts of them. It’s fascinating to see the progression of these characters throughout the play. At the beginning you see Josie and Hogan throwing insults at each other and Josie proudly holding the name of the town whore, but right before the very end you see Hogan in all earnest admitting his love for his daughter and Josie admitting to her virginity. The road that O’Neil take you down to develop these characters and show characters vulnerability is quite amazing.
ReplyDeleteAnother thought about this play was that it’s almost kind of sad how Josie has to put up this very promiscuous image of herself in town. My question is why? Does she create this image for herself to try and protect herself from being harassed about her size and appearance? Or does she do to it to try and prove herself as a rough strong woman to please her father and the society that they were in? would it have made a difference in her life if she had created this image for herself or not?
-Kristina Fusco
After reading everyone's comments, I agree with most that I really did enjoy this story. When I started to read it, I thought I wouldn't have liked it due to the fact that Josie and her father had a very abusive relationship. But at the end, it was clear that her father genuinely cared about her and his other children.
ReplyDeleteIt was also very hard to watch Josie think so little of herself, even thought it was clear that she was a very intelligent, beautiful, and clever women. My favorite parts of the play were her interactions with Jim Tyrone. It was presented that Jim was an already broken man and Josie was always there when he needed her, even the times she didn't seem to want him in her life.
Some questions I had were, why had Hogan not trusted anyone in the story? It was clear he had been hurt himself, but it was not told why. And why Jim hadn't stayed? Even though he loved Josie, was it that not enough for him?
Over all, I did enjoy this story and the characters in it.
- Danielle Cromack
I kind of wish that Josie would have left Hogan to be with Jim. All she's really doing is suffering from an abusive relationship with her father so why not leave him for someone who she knows truly loves her. Not that her father doesn't truly love her, but he doesn't do a great job at showing it to Josie. I understand what others said before about Josie staying loyal to her father out of respect and commitment to family, but I think Jim is respectable enough that he would treat Josie admirably and she would have been happier with him.
ReplyDelete-Kristina Fusco
Kristina-- I think the fact that Josie and Jim could not end up together was actually what made the book so frustrating and effective. So many love stories end with some semblance of a happy ending, or at the very least with the two leads happy in their own way. What made this play so real for me was that it put on no show of pretending to be that kind of story. I still hoped throughout my reading that Josie and Jim would somehow find their way together against the odds, but I can't say I was surprised when they did not. When a play manages to keep you hoping against your better judgement and still feeling for the characters as they get dealt a less than ideal hand, it proves to me the piece is a success.
DeleteI actually don't think Josie would be happier with Jim because as much as Jim did love Josie for all of her flaws, I don't think the real love was there. Yes, Josie did finally get to feel as if she was being loved for her true and complete self, but I feel like Jim's real motivation was to get forgiveness. Of course, I know that he subconsciously asked forgiveness from Josie on behalf of his mother, but I feel like even with this point considered, Jim wouldn't be able to have a healthy relationship with Josie due to how much he has gone through mentally already. I don't think he would be able to love her as he did during the night after getting his forgivness. However, I do think that what Jim did for Josie, help her accept her true self, will help her have a happier relationship in the future.
DeleteI usually don't like reading plays but I really enjoyed this one. I think the snide humor in the first few acts really lured me in. Another thing that I liked was that the play took place over such a short period of time and the fact that it's set in Connecticut made the setting a bit easier to connect to (no pun intended). The relationship between Josie and her father was unique for lack of a better term. They always seemed to be fighting but like many of you have already said they both did care for each other in a weird manner. Their dialogue really sets an interesting tone from the beginning. I had no idea of what to expect from the play during the first act. I think O'Neill did a really good job with characterization. Even though I only read the play I feel like I could really could see the events unfold in front of me. O'Neill also did a great job portraying some of the characters with their Irish dialect, it really gave an interesting perspective.
ReplyDeleteTo me, the snide humor like you said and the odd relationship between Josie and Hogan was something that really lured me in. I don't think that there have been many plays assigned to read in English class that have had amusing and interesting dialogues such as in this play. Also, it was a lot easier to follow and more engaging because the play took place over such a short period of time.
DeleteDallon Asnes
Dallon I agree with that! What attracts most of teenagers in this day and age is something that is either relevant, exciting or funny. Compared to the other work, this play format made it easier to digest dialogue and keep focus to the playwright's message. - Shayan Hassan
DeleteAs I have been reading through most of the posts the large majority have been about Josie and Jim, especially their departure at the end of the play so that is where I am going to start. First off I believe that both Josie and Jim did not want to part ways. I believe that Josie wanted to be with Jim to show him that she loved him. During that night she realized that she did not need to sleep with Jim to show him her love. On the other hand Jim wanted to be with Josie and believed that she was the only one who would understand him and forgive his sins. As the night unfolded they both were able to be real with each other. No facades were put on and they opened themselves up to be vulnerable to one another.
ReplyDeleteMoving away from the end of the play, something that stuck out in my mind after I had read the play was the very beginning. How Josie had helped three of her brothers escape from her father's control so that they would be happy. This showed that she had a very strong maternal instinct and that showed throughout the play. She was constantly watching out for her father, especially when he came home drunk. Most imporantly it showed when she was coddling Jim and trying to help him through his hurt emotional state. It made her seem a little bit more genuine.
As a side note, did anyone else pick up on the fact that the setting was Connecticut but everyone was Irish? (I didn't realize until the end of the play that i was reading the whole thing in an Irish accent, haha)
I know some of you mentioned gender roles in this play, so in response to that, I think there are definitely stereotypical gender roles present. Although Josie may not appear to be the typical “flapper” woman of the 1920s, she is definitely still strongly influenced by the men. Josie wants to appear like a “slut” who has slept with a number of men; this is likely what many of the partying flapper women of this time period liked to advertise themselves as. Also, even though she was truly in love with Tyrone, she let him leave and return to his “tarts” back in New York City; this strikes me as a more male-dominated relationship, which is stereotypical to this time period. In addition, this is being quite picky but I noticed how, in the play, O’Neill addresses Jodie by her first name, and he addresses the men by their last names (e.g. Tyrone, Hogan, Harder…). Addressing someone by their last name is always more specific than simply referring to them by their first name; this may show how women were thought of as less important than men in this time period. This does, after all, take place during September of 1923, only three years after the 19th Amendment was signed into law. Therefore, men were likely still thought of as superior to women.
ReplyDeleteI was also thinking it was odd how Josie was clearly embarrassed of her virginity and wanted to be known as the slut, yet she kept mocking Jim’s “tarts” back in New York City. “Tart” is a synonym for slut, so she was essentially making fun of herself.
Finally, since World War I had commenced only a few years prior to the start of this play, the reason Tyrone and Hogan (as well as all the other men we meet in this book) drink so much may have been in celebration of the end of war. On the other hand, the reason for their excessive drinking could also be because they knew soldiers (or possibly even were soldiers) who fought and died in the gruesome war, and they wanted to drink these horrible memories away.
I meant to write "since World War I had concluded only a few years prior...". Sorry!
DeleteI definitely agree with you that the excessive drinking was done by Tyrone and Hogan to drink their horrible memories way, but I feel like they did it more to drink their own memories way, rather than memories of World War Two. Tyrone obviously did have a lot he wanted to forget with all of his guilt in regards to his mother, but I believe Hogan also had things like this that he'd much prefer to forget through his drinking. His sons abandoned him, his wife had died, and though this is something that does not bother him at all due to how often he does it, he can only make a living by scheming others. Aside from having a relationship with Josie, he's pretty much a failure. If he was sober often enough, he'd be able to realize this. I think he drinks heavily to escape from this reality. In fact, Tyrone really does the same exact thing. To go back to what you were saying about people drinking to either celebrate or forget the memories of World War Two, I thought that was a very clever connection! I didn't even realize the pattern of this play's characters' drinking habits to the ones that you're talking about!
DeleteI also believe that your point about how Josie is pretty much making fun of herself reveals an even bigger theme of this play -self acceptance. Through out this play, we see that the characters don't accept who they are, resulting in them creating reputations for themselves that are far from true. Josie is an obvious example; she doesn't accept the fact that she is a good girl so she creates a reputation for herself as being a slut. However, as you said, her true opinions are revealed to the readers when she makes fun of Tyrone's "tarts". She denies her modesty through out the play, but finally during her night with Tyrone, she learns to accept herself for who she is. Jim shows her that her tough girl, careless attitude isn't necessary. She learns that it's not a bad thing to be a good girl. On the other hand, as discussed before, Tyrone runs away from what his flaws by drinking and spending time with his "tarts", creating quite the reputation for himself. Eventually, he learns to accept what he considers his flaw: a failure to his mother by getting forgiveness during his night with Josie. Although in different ways, by the end of the play, both Josie and Tyrone do come to terms with themselves and their pasts.
I believe this play was very interesting. First of all, being a play helped a lot as it kept you focused on the relationships between characters like Josie and her father. It kept the reader away from looking too much into other elements rich in detail in novels like setting.This helped me understand the playwright's message better. I want to talk about the father-daughter relationship. This relationship to me seemed very open. Both parties did not restrain themselves and it was very appalling. It was unpleasant to me that they were so proud of cheating people of their hard earned money and pulling off harsh scams.It was interesting to note that they both had a common feeling of enjoyment and cooperation when committing these acts. It makes me wonder if we actually got to see this live, how crazy it would be to witness the opulent dialogue. It would be easily more sensational and seeing the crowd's reaction would be intriguing to know. Especially in this society we see accounts of kids disrespecting their parents to their faces but older generation folks would probably receive this as unreal. Overall I liked this play which involved a concise amount of characters going through relationships that were very intriguing - Shayan Hassan
ReplyDeleteWhat captured my interest most in A Moon for the Misbegotten is how the main characters have their own personal outer shell/image they maintain at all costs and how certain characters could affect or get past each others shells. The best example is how Josie flaunts her sexuality even though it's later revealed that she is indeed a virgin, yet this image is also being upheld by the men she's supposedly been with partially due to their own hurt egos. Josie's image is then affected by Jim because her feelings for him cause her to drop her tough act and also because he disapproves of her image due to its perceived "vulgarity".
ReplyDeleteActually, Josie is very much not a virgin. She said that to make Jim feel better. He knew her as a pure woman and wanted it to stay that way throughout the night, so she lied to make that illusion reality. Guess she's a pretty good liar :P
DeleteHi Everyone!
ReplyDeleteI have to say this was a play that I really enjoyed! For the most part it was a pretty easy read and although they stayed pretty much in the same place I thought it was very interesting. Although some of it, I had to read a couple times to understand. Like I didn't really understand how Jim was going to sell the farm but then he was kidding? Also the part where Hogan said that he was the one who kept breaking Harder's fence but then when confronted Hogan blamed the breaking fence on Harder. I didn't fully understand that part. But I thought that Jim and Josie have a very interesting relationship. One minute they're act as thought they hate each other and the next Jim is telling Josie how beautiful she is and she's telling Jim she loves him. I think that Josie handled the whole conversation under the moonlight between her and Jim very well. I think it was smart of her to just let him vent. I think that was something that his soul really needed. I also thought that it was smart of her to try and protect him the next morning when he thought he hadn't said anything to her. I think that would've also helped him a lot, had he not remembered everything.
The other thing I found very interesting about this book is the relationship between Hogan and Josie. I think it's strange how Josie kind of has the upper hand. Even though both her and her father pretend that it's him who's in charge they definitely both know that it's her. It's very weird how they are so caught up with running their farm and making any kind of money they can that they'll just scam anyone they come across, like Shayan said. They just don't really care at all what other people think which I think is a much different style for people of this time period.
I'd also like to comment on the outrageous drinking of Hogan and Tyrone. I absolutely agree with Ailya on this. They were both drinking themselves sick so they wouldn't have to think about their past and the awful things that happened to them. They both lost someone important in their lives and they deal with it the only way they know how: by drinking. This allows them to not have to remember. They can stay drunk and out of reality as long as they want, and that's the easiest way for them. This whole book was very interesting and I liked it a lot.
-Kayla Singleton
Kayla- while reading the play I got the impression that Jim and Hogan were trying to live in the moment for most of their lives and didn't want to face any consequences. Hogan turning the tables when confronted by Harder is a good example of this because he views it as one big joke, and doesn't really care about what legal action Harder might take against him for the damage to his property, and would rather focus on confusing and embarrassing Harder to entertain Jim with Josie's help.
DeleteAili -I agree with you that the characters were all trying to avoid consequences of their past, but I actually disagree with you that they were all living in the moment. I personally felt like out of the three main characters of Josie, Hogan, and Tyrone, Josie was the only one actually living her life in the moment. She was the only character that appeared to have any motivations or goals Yes, I don't think she had any big, ambitious goals like becoming a millionaire, but I feel like in the back of her mind, she at least wanted to find love or do something with her life. Therefore, I felt like she was actively living her life. Whereas, the impression that I received from Hogan'a character was that he was just living for the sake of living. I suppose it can be considered that he was living in the present and doing things (such as his scheming) for a purpose (getting food on their table, getting entertainment from making fools out of other people, etc.), but I don't think he was actually trying to get anywhere in his life. As far as Tyrone goes, I don't think he was living in the moment at all. All he cared about was his past: when he disappointed his mother. Everything he did after this moment still went back to his mother. He drank to escape his guilt in regards to his mother. He spent time in Broadway with his tarts to forget about his mother. He even made Josie (obviously this wasn't his intention) finally feel loved because of his guilt; he just wanted to be forgiven on behalf of his mother. I think up until this point, he was living in the past, but after he received forgiveness, he was finally able to move on and live in the present. Even at this point though, I wouldn't say he was actually doing much living in the moment, more like just passing time until he dies.
Delete-Aiyla Zahid
To me this play did not amount to the hype everyone has been talking about. I found Lilies much more engaging and wrought with more poetic and meaningful parts. Misbegotten was too quick; it's characters were not nearly as full as I would have liked them too, the dialogue seemed to repeat itself; with lots of I take that back and don't get mad at me's, it's the alcohol talking. A slipshod play. I felt no sympathy for the characters and did not find any part of the play engaging. I'm curious if it would be more powerful on stage. Perhaps I would enjoy it more there. But good for the people who enjoyed it, I can see your point; just didn't do it for me. Ah well
ReplyDelete